Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I found phoenix worms online and have ordered some to try "Beardie" on. Hopefully they will not be an impaction risk for him like the mealworms seem to be. Also, I am considering buying a silkworm kit that has the eggs, habitat, and food for them. Is this a good idea or would I be better off just buying them when I can find them (the website was out of silkworms)? Thank you.

Evie

As far as the silkworms go, you'll have to try it yourself and make a decision. I hatch and grow about 400/wk here and they are my primary feeder. But, I have a lot of dragons.

you say you hatch out 400/wk do you breed them? or do you buy the eggs and hatch them out? i use silkworms as my primary feeder as well and was wondering how easy it is to breed them if u do nd approx how much money in food do u go through for them?

as for the original poster, phoenix worms are great...all of my beardies and my frillie love them but i only use them as a semi staple mainly for any dragons under 8 inches since they are so small they would not make an adult dragon full at all
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1.0.0 Frilled Dragon - Frank
0.0.1 Rhinoceros Iguana - Mo
2.1.1 Bearded Dragons - Magellan, Galileo, Lizzy, & Machiavelli

Though I never breed as many as BDLvr, I have grown silkworms in the past and its easy. The hard part is making sure they are not in a too humid environment and make sure they are pretty sterile. Bacterial infestations or mold kill the worms off fast.

I can't breed them in my apartment in the summer because it gets too humid most days...even with AC on. But other than that, I don't have problems keeping them in the winter..but I haven't bred them as I really don't have many lizards to feed them to.

Basically to breed them, temperatures around 70-75F is fine. A little warmer and they do grow faster but I find they die easier too. Too cold and they won't grow at all...and temps below 65F they probably die, or go dormant. I never had them that cold so not sure.

Best way to start is buy a 100 large silkworms (or medium), let them eat all the chow they want (feed once a day enough so its all gone in a few hours) I just keep them on egg grate (they pupate nicely in the little 'cups' which can be easily cut from the tray) Once I have cocoons, I gently remove them from the others and put them in a container in a dry ventilated area (pretty much just a sweaterbox or shoebox sized container with the lid off. If you don't have anything to get into the container (ie kids, animals etc), leave the lid off..If you have something that can get into it, cut a hole in the lid (large) and cover with screen (typical window screen)

Roughly 10-20 days later the cocoons will hatch and you get about half inch to 2/3" long brown moths. They look remarkably like tent caterpillar moths.... But years of farming has rendered them flightless..they can lap their wings fast but won't fly. THe females tend to be larger than the males..and often enough they will find eachother without any help from you. Once you have a mating pair (they stay joined for about 20 or so hours), I put them into a small sandwich sized container lined with wax paper (others just use small sandwich sized paper bags). Once the male detaches, take him out and pair him off with another female (if still alive) if you have one available, or just feed him to your bearded dragon.

The female will soon lay eggs after the male detaches. She lays several hundred eggs give or take, then dies. Feed her to your dragon, its a nice treat. Wait till the eggs turn dark (kind of purple) then you can either leave them out at same temperatures as the worms, or refrigerate for up to a year. When you need to hatch some, take out roughly how many eggs you need and at the temperatures above, they should hatch in about 8-12 days. You will have tiny black worms...feed finely shredded silkworm chow. Keep them as clean as possible (pretty much impossible at this size.) I just add more grated chow, letting the worms move from the old dry stuff to the fresh stuff...till they are about an inch long and I can feel confident of moving them to a clean setup without squishing the. Wash hands before handling them, just plain soap and water...cleansers like Puril or Zoo-med's Wipe Out may very well kill the worms.

The use of silkworm chow I think it is about half a pound of powder can grow 100 silkworms to 2".
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PHLdyPayne

Thanks for the information PhldyPayne.

I never knew it was this easy. I do have 1 question though. Do you need to feed the moths, or do they breed right away? Thanks

The moths don't eat at all. Their sole purpose is to mate, lay eggs and die. You will find the moths don't live more than a couple days to a week at the most. All the eating is done by the worm. The moths don't even have mouth parts.
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PHLdyPayne

That's pretty amazing how those silkworm moths don't eat as adults. I guess being a kid really was the better part of their lives!

So, as you said about feeding the moths to your bearded dragon after they are finished mating, will bearded dragons also eat the dead worms, or is this not safe? I'm just wondering, just in case I get into the silkworm breeding, it's good to know what's safe and what's not.

Also, what about hornworms? Are they just the same in care?

don't feed the dead worms...I just throw those out. Usually what kills silkworms is bacteria of some sort or mold..or too much humidity...I wouldn't risk it.

If the moths have been dead too long then just throw them out too. I typically only fed live moths..usually extra males and females who finished laying eggs when they are still alive..or were alive within 12 hours.
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PHLdyPayne

Up to about 2-3 years ago I used to breed them. The description from LdyPayne is pretty close to how I did it. I put cocoons in a 20L terrarium. Then when the moths emerged I moved them to a terrarium lined with brown paper. They would lay their eggs there and then I could cut the paper into pieces that had the amount of eggs on it I wanted. I keep the worms in large rectangle ziplock containers with holes cut in the lids. I don't move them to a new container until the container is full of old food and soil, about an inch long.

Today I buy eggs and hatch them. All the stages of mating etc. is too time consuming for the amount I need. None of the silkworm suppliers breed their own either. All the eggs come from China or Japan. I use 1 1/2 - 2 lbs. of dry food a week.

thanx alot both of u for the reply! i currently have a few that came to me in cocoons and im actually doing exactly what you guys said...ive hatched out 10,000 of them at one point for my 21 hatchlings when they were still small and my only issue with them is the darn food and its cost...i used to have a mulberry tree in my old yard but since i moved im lucky if i find grass in my yard...depending on how things go i might give a shot at breeding these nd eventually starting a colony of turks as well
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1.0.0 Frilled Dragon - Frank
0.0.1 Rhinoceros Iguana - Mo
2.1.1 Bearded Dragons - Magellan, Galileo, Lizzy, & Machiavelli

Are they hard to hatch and grow? Any specific temperatures that I need to hatch and maintain them in?

I use incubators set to about 81 to hatch mine. After they are about 2 weeks old or about a 1/2 inch long I remove them from the incubator. Then grow them to adults at room temp. My house is 68 this time of year.

I can't remember if I've ever hatched them in the winter without incubating them. Maybe someone else can answer this.

It took a little time to eliminate die-offs. Cleanliness is important but otherwise it's not too difficult. They do have to be fed daily so keep that in mind.