Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just 6 months ago, at his last photo shoot he looked his normal calico self.....

Tonight he shed again and where'd the color go??????

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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

im sorry dave that just doesnt look healthy, what happend??
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-Stephen-
-Step-
-Steve Lightning-

0.1 soon to be wifey (hopefully)
1.0 rotwiler/chow (Boomer-wifey's pooch)
1.0 norm corn (Jake aka grumpy old terdhead)
1.0 col redtail boa (Switch, formally known as Dixie)
0.1 ball python (Bella- wifey's baby girl)
0.1 Brazilian Rainbow Boa (Saphira)

hopeful for not to distant future:
--Brazilian rainbow boas
2 or 3 more? maybe a breeding trio or two pair
-- something for the wifey... my list got to big...

He looks just fine other than even more color is "gone". Eating, pooping and shedding like any BRB.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Hmmm, just yesterday I was at the bookstore, and I randomly walked down an aisle in which there were 1/2-off books, one of which was a Corn Snake manual. Of course I had to skim through it, and in the section on mutations was a description of a possible calico/piebald mutation in corn snakes. The author said that the mutation didn't express itself (ie, colors remained normal) until the snake was 2 or 3 years old, and sometimes a shed would reduce color minimally, while other sheds would wipe out a lot of color. Anyway, your snake Fluffy obviously came to mind while I was reading that. Quite a coincidence that this happened and you posted pics just a day
later. Seems like there are parallels.

Did Fluffy look normal when he was born?

Thanks,
Ed

>>Just 6 months ago, at his last photo shoot he looked his normal calico self.....
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>>Tonight he shed again and where'd the color go??????
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>>Thanks,
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>>Dave Colling
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>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
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>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Wow, sounds just like Fluffy, he was born and originally sold as a normal. Then at two or three years of age he turned Calico, Then Brian Sharp had him for some time, all the pics on his site look pretty much like him for the first year I had him now this additional color loss.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

That is insane, haha kinda reminds me of male-pattern balding since he's still got it on the sides of his heads; maybe you'll get lucky and be able to pass him off as a black eyed leucistic someday That would be killer!
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Danne
---------
1.0 '07 BRB "Monroe"
1.0 '08 BRB 66% het Anery "Ace"
1.0 '08 Pastel BP "Sebastian"
1.1 Leos "Bowser & Peach"
0.2 Dumbo (non-feeder) rats "Josie & Holly"
1.2 family members who can't wait until I move "the zoo" into my own place

Email = dshoback@eden.rutgers.edu

I know these are two different species but I have a Honduran Milk that is Hypo Het Anery. When I got him he was a typical normal looking Hypo but a few weeks ago at about a year of age white started coming through where there was red.

With so many cross breedings and such we have no idea what is going on with these animal's genes.. Plus he is still tipping white with each shed, its very odd but he is a healthy Hondo.

But if we look at chondros whom have extreme color changes during neonate to adulthood and then from hormonal(females) the genetics just amazes me, were his parents Het for anything?

With that being said fluffy does look somewhat sick, the extreme color loss is crazy.

Neonate

Subadult

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Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."
My 2008 Care Sheet & The BRB Stats. Username: brb@kingsnake.com

Those look like scrapes. I expect those scales will be back to their normal orange color within a few sheds. I have a young BRB that did that too. There's nothing in her bin that she could have scraped herself on, but she did so anyway.
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Julie
www.[url ban]/gfx

>>Those look like scrapes. I expect those scales will be back to their normal orange color within a few sheds. I have a young BRB that did that too. There's nothing in her bin that she could have scraped herself on, but she did so anyway.
>>-----
>>Juliehe
>>www.[url ban]/gfx

That may very well be but he has shed twice so far since I have noticed this and has a few spots of white tipping, very hard to even notice. I am in the same situation as you nothing he could scrape himself on, time will tell. It does kinda make sense since he is het for anery and white could be coming through for some odd reason.
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Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."
My 2008 Care Sheet & The BRB Stats. Username: brb@kingsnake.com

Dave,
Fluffy is not nearly as striking looking with the fading. You have to wonder whats going on with that snake. So prior to this last shed he was looking his normal self? Like one of the other posters stated, you might have a pure white snake in the future. Really, really interesting.....
Thanks for sharing,
Paul

He had been looking lighter but I thought it was just opaqueness from the shed. Now that he shed he's still looking light.
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

It looks more like a condition than a morph right now. I think I miss his colors.
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Julie
www.[url ban]/gfx

Dave,
...We have seen BRBs go through some big color changes. Looking at those PICs I am still a little worried though.
Jeff

>>Just 6 months ago, at his last photo shoot he looked his normal calico self.....
>>
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>>Tonight he shed again and where'd the color go??????
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>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

I haven't posted in quite a while, but when I saw this I just had to! Holy cow!! What the heck!! I wonder if those areas will turn all white as well? Does make him look a bit sickly right now, but maybe the fading will continue. Hmmm.... very interesting indeed!
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Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

I never would have guessed that he would lose his color like that. I wonder what caused it to happen?
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Thank you,

Tim

0.1 Wife- Melissa
0.1 Daughter- Alexa
0.1 CRB- Tempest
0.1 JCP- Serenity
1.0 Orange Cat- Elvis

what the?? thats crazy dave, you will certainly have to keep us updated with pictures over the coming months, of what colour he does turn out.
Could this be, a new white coming thru? ie when the white came thru last time, i wonder if it did in the same way, over a few sheds. As you can still see some normal colour there, especially on his face.
Either way, some interesting stuff going on.
After this change, is he still in with his girls, and showing interest?

cheers
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Dave

13.19 brbs

When I first saw him my immediate thought was this is another color loss similar to his original Calico. Maybe goes away in stages. Never had or seen anything like him and I did not see him change in the first place so don't know the exact chronology of the change.

I raise my own feeders and he has never been fed a larger rat let alone a fat one so unlikely to have come from food related issues.

He appears normal (other than the color loss) in all ways, alert, moving, toned, tongue flicking avery time I open the cage etc.

No breeding activity see but then again it's early in the season and I've only seen minimal signs of breeding activity in the entire group. So far only 3 hemipenal sheds and one pair wrapped this morning.

Wondering if I should get him into the vet and see what they say??? Although probably a waste of time and money, I will probably do it just for the peace of mind.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Dave,
...I would palpate the snake thoroughly. Looking for lumps or masses. Also trying to determine if any internal organs, are enlarged. I would also want labs. A full blood count and electrolyte panel. Hormone levels would also be of interest. IMO, veterinary visit would be pointless except for the labs.
Jeff

>>When I first saw him my immediate thought was this is another color loss similar to his original Calico. Maybe goes away in stages. Never had or seen anything like him and I did not see him change in the first place so don't know the exact chronology of the change.
>>
>>I raise my own feeders and he has never been fed a larger rat let alone a fat one so unlikely to have come from food related issues.
>>
>>He appears normal (other than the color loss) in all ways, alert, moving, toned, tongue flicking avery time I open the cage etc.
>>
>>No breeding activity see but then again it's early in the season and I've only seen minimal signs of breeding activity in the entire group. So far only 3 hemipenal sheds and one pair wrapped this morning.
>>
>>Wondering if I should get him into the vet and see what they say??? Although probably a waste of time and money, I will probably do it just for the peace of mind.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Agreed on the vet visit but that's the only way to get the tests done.
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

>>Agreed on the vet visit but that's the only way to get the tests done.
>>-----
>>Thanks,
>>
>>
>>Dave Colling
>>
>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>
>>
>>
>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>
>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>26.49 BRB
>>20.21 BCI
>>And those are only the breeders
>>
>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

For what it's worth, the corn snake book I was reading mentioned that one of the possibilities could be an auto immune disorder associated with the skin. And it could be similar to known disorders (like Lupus in humans) that normally only show themselves later in life.

Good luck with this Dave, I think it will be more of a wait and see thing than anything else (with him and his offspring.) Hopefully it's just a skin issue and he's otherwise healthy.

Thanks,
Ed

>>Dave,
>>...I would palpate the snake thoroughly. Looking for lumps or masses. Also trying to determine if any internal organs, are enlarged. I would also want labs. A full blood count and electrolyte panel. Hormone levels would also be of interest. IMO, veterinary visit would be pointless except for the labs.
>>Jeff
>>
>>
>>>>When I first saw him my immediate thought was this is another color loss similar to his original Calico. Maybe goes away in stages. Never had or seen anything like him and I did not see him change in the first place so don't know the exact chronology of the change.
>>>>
>>>>I raise my own feeders and he has never been fed a larger rat let alone a fat one so unlikely to have come from food related issues.
>>>>
>>>>He appears normal (other than the color loss) in all ways, alert, moving, toned, tongue flicking avery time I open the cage etc.
>>>>
>>>>No breeding activity see but then again it's early in the season and I've only seen minimal signs of breeding activity in the entire group. So far only 3 hemipenal sheds and one pair wrapped this morning.
>>>>
>>>>Wondering if I should get him into the vet and see what they say??? Although probably a waste of time and money, I will probably do it just for the peace of mind.
>>>>-----
>>>>Thanks,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Dave Colling
>>>>
>>>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>>>
>>>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>>>26.49 BRB
>>>>20.21 BCI
>>>>And those are only the breeders
>>>>
>>>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Ed,
...Good points. Autoimmune diseases in humans are difficult to diagnose. I have no idea whether an ANA test would be used in reptile veterinary. I was also thinking after posting earlier that genetic testing might be required and it would likely be impossible to differentiate whether abnormal genetics would show up with Fluffy related to the earlier color loss and this most recent color loss which may involve different genetics. Seems WAY more complicated than typical reptile vet visit.
Jeff

>>For what it's worth, the corn snake book I was reading mentioned that one of the possibilities could be an auto immune disorder associated with the skin. And it could be similar to known disorders (like Lupus in humans) that normally only show themselves later in life.
>>
>>Good luck with this Dave, I think it will be more of a wait and see thing than anything else (with him and his offspring.) Hopefully it's just a skin issue and he's otherwise healthy.
>>
>>Thanks,
>>Ed
>>
>>
>>>>Dave,
>>>>...I would palpate the snake thoroughly. Looking for lumps or masses. Also trying to determine if any internal organs, are enlarged. I would also want labs. A full blood count and electrolyte panel. Hormone levels would also be of interest. IMO, veterinary visit would be pointless except for the labs.
>>>>Jeff
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>>When I first saw him my immediate thought was this is another color loss similar to his original Calico. Maybe goes away in stages. Never had or seen anything like him and I did not see him change in the first place so don't know the exact chronology of the change.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I raise my own feeders and he has never been fed a larger rat let alone a fat one so unlikely to have come from food related issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>He appears normal (other than the color loss) in all ways, alert, moving, toned, tongue flicking avery time I open the cage etc.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>No breeding activity see but then again it's early in the season and I've only seen minimal signs of breeding activity in the entire group. So far only 3 hemipenal sheds and one pair wrapped this morning.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wondering if I should get him into the vet and see what they say??? Although probably a waste of time and money, I will probably do it just for the peace of mind.
>>>>>>-----
>>>>>>Thanks,
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Dave Colling
>>>>>>
>>>>>>www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
>>>>>>0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)
>>>>>>
>>>>>>LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
>>>>>>26.49 BRB
>>>>>>20.21 BCI
>>>>>>And those are only the breeders
>>>>>>
>>>>>>lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

Very Odd Dave,

I really don't have any suggestions other than to agree with Jeff's idea of having labwork done.

I know how well you keep your animals so i don't think it could be the result of anything we typically see that causes problems with BRBs.

I'm hoping that since Fluffy is such an oddity anyway, this is just a natural byproduct of it.

My fingers are crossed and I'm hoping for the best!
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Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Wow, that's really odd, Dave. Here's hoping he's just turning more white for you and there's nothing seriously wrong with him. I know you'll update us when you have lab results or any other news. I know I'd be freaking out if that happened with one of my animals...
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0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko - Tigger
0.1 Crested Gecko - Pooh-Bear

Wow.
What did you do to your snake?
Do you actually have a decent reptile vet in your area?
Hope it's just a part of Fluffy's weird color thing! I think it's definitely a good sign that his behavior is normal!
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1.1.0 beardies
1.0.0 bloodred corn
0.1.0 striped anery corn
0.1.0 the cutest lil BRB ever- courtesy of Dave!
0.1.0 leopard gecko
0.1.0 golden gecko
0.2.0 mourning geckos
1.1.0 cats

Took him in and basically nothing. The Vet checked him over, No internal masses, firm muscle tone, good body mass, alert and active, scales while having lost color show no signs of anything wrong with them. He is researching his online resources to see if there's anything else but basically thinks it's related to the original color loss.

Have a bottle for a fecal sample next time I can get one but other than that nothing to do but wait and see how his color goes.

I did ask and the vet saw no reason he couldn't continue with his breeding activities this season!!
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Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

It's good to hear that the vet wasn't able to find anything wrong with him. Obviously, not finding anything is not a definitive result, but at least it points in the direction of there not being anything wrong. Here's hoping he makes some beautiful and healthy babies for you.
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0.1 Albino Leopard Gecko - Tigger
0.1 Crested Gecko - Pooh-Bear