Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Anyone ever produce California X Eastern Kings? I know they are both essentially black and white snakes but I would like to see what a cross would look like....

I want to see what a scarlet kingsnake crossed with a python would look like.
Ok just kidding.
They have a special forum for hybreds here in KS.com I think.
Many of us like to keep things pure.
.

.

"Igor you fool! You brought me the wrong brain" Dr Frankinstein

-----
"Wake me when its April"
Doug L

These are the same species, both getula. So its not a hybrid. Cheers

If it's not a natural intergrade, then what else.... It's a man-made hybrid.
-----
Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

No it is a cross. I looked it up in the dictionary.

But it can be and has been problematic in the hobby to some palpable degree, particularly when some do not honestly represent and/or intentionally try to market something that is not true. We all know this -- at least the more seasoned gentlemen (and ladies) in the room that have been around for some time do. For those that do it responsibly, bravo..... for those that don't, well....I have other choice words for them.

There's also the matter of ethics as well. So before I climb onto that really high soap box, I will let that marinate without any further perseveration on the topic.
-----
Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

Intergrade......Hybrid......

The argument is not whether the pairing is good for the hobby,unethical, or anything like this.

It is scientifically speaking an Intergrade, yes unnatural due to the geographical impossibilities of this occurring naturally in nature.

So because of the nomenclature and scientific definitions it is a Man Made Intergrade.

Not saying etically if it's right or wrong.
-----
Thanks,

Frank Roberts

So is a virgina beach king crossed to a New jersey king. Cheers

"So is a virgina beach king crossed to a New jersey king."

Yes, many folks don't even like crosses of different localities. As has been said, "Whatever floats your boat".

Everyone has a right to their opinion and preferences. Some like prefer hybrids, some prefer "pure" at the subspecific level, some may only like locality matched animals.

Nobody is right or wrong here. You're playing with semantics. I'm not into bashing those who want to create hybrids or un-natural crosses as long as they are fairly represented.

I'm pretty picky about who I buy from however. I like animals that are "pure" at the subspecific level or even better, locality animals. I have to trust that those that I buy from are fairly representing their animals.

In my opinion (you know, the one I have a right to) a cross between a cal king and an eastern would look better than neither.

The point here is, some here do not think like US. They are saying take these to the hybrid forum. When they are not hybrids.

So yes, you should tell those folks to talk about what floats their boat.

As for me, I like kingsnakes, they float my boat. Well, I like varanids better, not better, they are just more fun. Cheers

RRRRrrrrrrrRRRRRrrrrr..(Sirens) Drivers license and your AARP card and.. your Hybrid breeders assn card...LOL
btw you have right to remain silent "But Why" you have the right to laugh once in a while...
Stay Warm Y'all its freezing in Fla Again , I know that is Luxury and Paradise compared to most of the rest of the Country from what ive seen

I have seen a lot of hybrid and unatural crosses but I don't recall ever seeing a calif x eastern king. But that doesn't mean they aren't any out there. I have seen lots of goini x calif, Floridana x calif and speckled x calif. Maybe because the esatsern will eat the calif king or the calif king senses the eastern as a dominate threat and flees rather than breed. But other hybrids that are far more difficult to breed have been accomplished so I think it is safe to say a calif x eastern might not be that attractive so that is why we don't see to many.

maybe I'm wrong but Thomas may have done this cross.....F.R.???
-----
Todd Hughes

I never attempted such a regional cross. But I am sure it would be easy enough.

There are those who cross scent the females. Or do what I have always done, raise them together and they will breed as if they are the same. Cheers

There were a few who did this cross back when someone thought it might be an idea to get the amel gene into the easterns and FL kings.
Mostly looked, as I recall, like "dirty" Cal kings.
The albinos looked similar to what we see today....
neither 100% like a Cal nor 100% like an eastern.
I think I saw one for sale with an albino banana Cal not long ago on classifeds like Craigslist..
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I can appreciate keeping things pure. But I also like what can be created by mixing genetics. I did some looking on google images to see what would pop up and the closest I could find was the pic in this link (looks like what I would anticicapte a cali x eastern would look like):

http://www.sdherpsociety.org/rick_files/KINGSNAKES.htm

Might be a neat project at some point.

here are lg.nigraXlg.fla. that are 100%het.snow. the easternXcali crosses ive seen really take after the cali.old forum member jetzen has made these i beleive.
anyway heres the father of mine a snow from gulfcoast although GC maintains it is pure floridana many have commented as well as its my opinion there is some cali in him.

the momma a Ky. l.g.nigra

they babies


mine really took after the nigra they are quite tenacious like many F1's tend to be, but did take right to rodents but are slow growing for sure
getula is getula is getulagotta love the getula,,,,,,,,thomas davis

-----
Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

........very slow growing indeed
-----
2.4.0 Leopard Geckos
0.1.0 California Kingsnake
0.1.0 Copperhead
1.1.0 Eastern Box Tutles

You asked a question that has mostly turned into another hybrid debate. I will stay out of that one and attempt to answer your question.

First, there would be many variables that could affect the crossing; both Cal kings and Eastern kings come in a variety of pattern differences...thick and thin bands, ground colors, stripes in Cals and a few more.

Now, if you used a normal banded Cal king and say a 2-3 scale width banded Eastern, I think you would end up with babies that had some fairly thin banding that matured to be a little more "dirty" banding. You would likely loose much of the "chaining" pattern on the laterals so superficially I believe you would nd up with babies that looked like a thin banded dirty colored cal kings. Head shape would probably end up a little more blunted also.

Maybe they would behave nicer than a cal king though.

Just my thoughts.

dc