Reptile & Amphibian Forums

HI,I am new to the herp world and have had immeasurable and phenomenal advice along the way.
However, I've heard some conflicts to what I've been taught. I would like very much to hear what others think.

1. Feed live or frozen? [Contrary to what I have learned, I have heard the argument; the only reason you feed frozen is for convenience. Animals however enjoy "a kill" and should be given live (at least once in a while) and “always” if the animal is off its feed.

2: Substrate-- what is the best for Kingsnakes? I have mine on Cyprus mulch but, have heard sand is better for kings.
What are the best substrates?

3. Tank size – what’s appropriate (lets say for a four foot snake)

4. Separate tanks vs. housed together?

5. Hides- how many should they have?

I posted this in the general forum but didn't get any response so, i am trying here. Can you help me? I am very interested to find out the answers to these. Thank you

I'm sure that others will chime in here as well, but what I can tell you is the there's no black and white, or right or wrong, answers to your questions. It really comes down to personal preference and convenience. For every choice, there will be pros and cons. For instance, if you feed live, there is the chance of having the prey harm the snake. On the other hand, those that feed live often report better muscle tone with their snake. Some people like aspen, others like sand, others prefer newspaper, each with their pros and cons.

I have experimented with all of the variables you mentioned in your post for a few years now and finally have come up with a set up that works for me, my snakes, and my hectic schedule. You have to find what works for you, yet still be able to provide the necessary environments for your captives.
-----
Diego

SWCHR

I have kept my Cal king on

Mulch/Forest Mix

Gravel/Sand Mix

and this new natural substrate that I have found to work very well

The Kingsnake thrived in every one of them.......of course aspen is probably the mostly commonly used substrate.
-----
1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

Nice. What is your new substrate there?
-----
Mark

It's something I find local here in TN actually. I am only able to find it on one shore of Telico Lake here in TN........most of the time the shore is just silt, but not here.

One might think the substrate would have come from Utah or Arizona, not TN LOL.

It works great but I have to go through the entire sanitization and purge process before I place it with any species in my collection...........I also have to pick bits of glass out of the mix.
-----
1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

I agree with Diego. Having said that---1) I feed f/t and will use live if I have a hard feeder.2) I use aspen and have tried several. This is what I have found best for me and my snakes. 3)Maybe half the diameter of the enclosure should be at least as long as the snake? 4)Seperate or together. I will not even touch this one. 5)I use at least two--one at the hot end and one at the cool end. If the substrate is deep enough they will hide in that as well.

> 4)Seperate or together. I will not even touch this one. <

Whatever do you mean Joe? lol
-----
Sometimes I think the kid with two pet snakes has something that those of us with 50 to 200 lost a long time ago.

1. Feed live or frozen? Frozen is by far cheaper.I use live when they stop taking frozen,or to get them started after brumation or on pia feeders'
2: Substrate? This doesn't matter I have too many snakes so I use newspaper.it free and easy to change.

3. Tank size for a four foot snake ? 20 Gal short is about right (make sure that lid is weighted all around)

4. Separate tanks vs. housed together? IF you want to save on your food bill keep them together and that will also take care of the live vs frozen question also.I have kept getula together for years with only a few problems but why chance it Also if you keep them together you have to watch them when you feed them or they will both try to swallow the same mouse and one may get eaten,Plus they can constrict on each other breaking ribs.I have had all of these happen.

5. Hides- how many should they have? The more hides the better.I may pile several cookie boxesin the tank so the have height as well as different temps.Remember this they want a hide that is tight to their backs,So about 1.5 - 2 inches for a 3-4 foot getula

good luck
-----
"Wake me when its April"
Doug L

1. Frozen/thawed is safer for the animal because it eliminates the risk of a conflict between hunter and hunted. Weather or not the snake "enjoys the kill" is apparently a topic of debate. There is a recent thread in the ball python forum which effectively illustrates the risks associated with feeding live. That said, there is nothing inherently wrong with feeding live, it is a husbandry decision. I fed live prey for about a year before switching to frozen/thawed because I decided it was both safer for my snakes and more convenient for me. They (a ball python and a mexican black kingsnake) didn't seem to mind.

2. Substrate is a very common topic. There are lots of options... Aspen and newspaper are probably the most popular. Bark, mulch and coconut husk (bed a beast, eco earth) are gaining popularity. Sand is not often discussed, and having never used it myself, I don't have an opinion on its viability. I'd suggest a Google search.

3. I've done a lot of reading on this, and most internet sources say 20 gallon (or 30 X 13 X 13" is the minimum for most kingsnakes... but why do the minimum? 20 gallons is awfully small if you ask me.

4. The issue of cohabbing is often debated on this forum. Kingsnakes do have cannibalistic tendencies, so if you cohab them, there is a possibility that under the right circumstances, one snake may eat the other. Some say these circumstances are avoidable, hence the debate.

5. Two hides are most often recommended, one on the cooler end of the heat gradient and one on the warm end. This allows the snake to thermoregulate and feel secure both when warming and cooling. Some offer only one hide on the cool end, which forces the snake to choose between basking and hiding.

I sympathize with new people, as there is a lot of conflicting information out there. I think reading forum posts, asking questions and seeking out information from a variety of sources are all great ways of educating yourself- of course, keeping a snake is the most educational of all.

Thank you so much for all the fantastic imput.
I have to say-It confirms beyond a doubt I am an EXTREMELY lucky newbie (!) Although it may have looked as if I was quesioning my source "of immeasurable advice" - in reality you all have reaffirmed what was known all along. What we have been patiently taught is EXACTLY what is needed to keep /maintain healthy reptiles.
THis is an incredibly exciting and rewarding hobby--it helps, to no end, to find people who can pull you through the quagmire of conflicting advice. Thank you all again.

Search the forums here to see all the fun debates and choose what you feel is best for your snakes. I feed live, use aspen, have varieties of enclosure sizes from shoeboxes to 40 gal breeders terrariums, keep single and cohabitate, use 1 large hide with a basking spot.
-----
Todd Hughes