Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I've been doing my homework and trying to figure out the differences between the Gold Phase and Black Phase White-Lipped Pythons, and I was hoping someone here more experience and knowledgeable could shed some light on the information I've found -- whether it is correct or incorrect, and as much/more info would be appreciated!!

I've found that the Black Phase White-Lippeds are also called Southern White-Lipped Pythons, while the Gold Phase are also called Northern White-Lipped Pythons. Despite their dark-light coloration, both have a distinct white belly and found in New Guinea (???). I have also found that the Southerns are a naturally calmer snakes and grow longer/larger than their Northern cousins. Additionally, their skin is extremely iridescent with a rainbow-like look.

Anyone else know any more information about the Southerns? Or know any differences between the two? Maybe I am a noob and am just not looking in the right places, but are they really both from the same place, or do both populations come from separate/different regions/countries?

And most importantly, why are Southerns so rare in captivity? Why is it that you never find them anywhere? You would think there would be a substantial amount of captive stock... I mean, in my eyes, I would think they would be popular in the reptile industry. I know White-Lippeds are notoriously difficult to breed, however in my experience, I have found them generally easy to keep happy. They are beautiful snakes... does anyone out there really breed or work with them?

Thanks for the help, in advance!! Maybe someone out there can direct me to some reliable websites...
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

I figured I'd at least show off some of my crappy photo-taking skills :-p This is Naudia, one of my female Gold Phase White-Lippeds. Thanks for looking!

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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

Hi there,

>I've found that the Black Phase White-Lippeds are also called >Southern White-Lipped Pythons, while the Gold Phase are also >called Northern White-Lipped Pythons. Despite their dark-light >coloration, both have a distinct white belly and found in New >Guinea (???).

Yepp, there are some morphological differences in scalation and they are readily separated by mtDNA analysis (genetic distance around 10%).

>I have also found that the Southerns are a naturally calmer >snakes and grow longer/larger than their Northern cousins.

Jepp, the southern are darker in color and lack the whitish spot on the postoculars. Most of the southern are calmer, but not all. I have a 5.5kg and 2.5m (~8ft) female that is absolutley tame.

>Additionally, their skin is extremely iridescent with a rainbow->like look.

>Anyone else know any more information about the Southerns? Or >know any differences between the two? Maybe I am a noob and am >just not looking in the right places, but are they really both >from the same place, or do both populations come from >separate/different regions/countries?

Well, they are geographically separated by a great mountain chain that runs through New Guinea.

>And most importantly, why are Southerns so rare in captivity? >Why is it that you never find them anywhere? You would think >there would be a substantial amount of captive stock... I mean, >in my eyes, I would think they would be popular in the reptile >industry. I know White-Lippeds are notoriously difficult to >breed, however in my experience, I have found them generally >easy to keep happy. They are beautiful snakes... does anyone >out there really breed or work with them?

There is an export quota of 450 specimens worldwide for each year. Most specimens are collected from around Sorong, and they are the golden ones. And yes, the southern are not easy to breed, and the southern WCs often are in bad shape and it takes years to get them ready for breeding at all.

>Thanks for the help, in advance!! Maybe someone out there can >direct me to some reliable websites...

Check out http://leiopython.de

Cheers,
Wulf
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_________________________________________
The Information Source about White-Lipped Pythons
..........for Fans, Breeders and, Herpetologists..........
_____________http://leiopython.de______________

Thanks for all the information! You were extremely helpful I'm taking it that you have a few Black Phase yourself?? If so would you have any pictures to share? (You know I have to ask!)

Also, I would imagine that the Gold Phase have a high import limit than the Black Phase since you see them much more often in captivity. Do you know why the differences in the import laws? Are Black Phase naturally more rare in the Wild?

Is anyone out there work with/breed the black Phase at all? Do you, LoL?? Where do you find these beautiful snakes?
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)

Hi there,

>Thanks for all the information! You were extremely helpful I'm taking it that you have a few Black Phase yourself?? If so would you have any pictures to share? (You know I have to ask!)

Yeah, I've got Southern ones as well. I'll post some photos in the next few days.

>Also, I would imagine that the Gold Phase have a high import limit than the Black Phase since you see them much more often in captivity. Do you know why the differences in the import laws?

Well, the quota of 450 specimens /year worldwide comprise southern and northern ones! In fact, the CITES commission isn't that fast when it comes to taxonomy, so that all the specimens are still referred to as L. albertisii. So, out of 450 specimens about 350 specimens are the Northern ones. When it comes to exporting them from the indonesian part of New Guinea, called Papua, there are no different laws! It's just that the typical range of the southern is in Papua New Guinea, and they don't export wildlife. The populations in Merauke and around Timika would be available, but for some reason, they are rarely collected there. Although, Timika has an airport.

>Are Black Phase naturally more rare in the Wild?

Not really, at least in Papua New Guinea they seem to be quite common snakes. But I could imagine, that they are not as common around Merauke or Timika.

>Is anyone out there work with/breed the black Phase at all? Do you, LoL?? Where do you find these beautiful snakes?

Over here in Europe, there are some people working with them. But, as most of these animals are wc, they take quite a while until they are ready to breed in captivity. I know three persons who were successful breeding them, but it took several years. In one case, only one egg was good out of ten or so.
I too, intend to breed them soon. My female seems to be ready to go, so we'll see what happens next season

Cheers,
Wulf
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_________________________________________
The Information Source about White-Lipped Pythons
..........for Fans, Breeders and, Herpetologists..........
_____________http://leiopython.de______________

It used to be that the only ones that came in to this country were dark (if memory serves me correctly) I think the ones that occur in Australia are just Southerns that moved down to Oz when the GTPs and Scrubs did many years ago when there was a connection. Strange as it may be, the same color variation seems to occur in Papuan Olives.
Chelsea.....See you at Larry's next show
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1.0 Blackheaded pythons
2.4 Woma
3.2 Aussie Olives
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0.1 wife, WC

The Black White-lipps are almost a completely different snake temperment wise compared to the Golds. They are harder to find but not impossible. I purchased 2 7footers from Strictly Reptiles a while back. They were fresh imports, in great shape and as tame as any Python i have ever owned. Bushmaster Reptiles sometimes has them also.

Matt Turner over at Selective Origins is not only a super nice guy but he is working with the black phase. I have a single gold currently but I might make some room for the blacks in the future. If I do Matt is the guy I will be bugging. I already bug him with BHP's. HAHA

Look on his site under "other projects". He may have a site link on here.

Jason

BHB and I were studying these guys years ago and came to the conclusion, that they have to be older (4-6yrs) in order to breed! That being said, for years I've been saying I need to pick up a couple pairs and haven't!

I purchase a pair from Tom Crutchfield a few years back. They were both fresh imports but very clean and healthy. The male was around 6' and the female was about 5' or so.

They were both super tame during the first month I owned them but for some reason the male turned really really nasty. I have owned anacondas, retics, bloods and by far this was the most aggressive snake I have ever owned/seen.

The female stayed a sweet heart.

Unfortunately do to some personal things I had to rid of my collection and they were taken right back.

They are still one of my favorites.

Beautiful animals.

Hope your find what you’re looking for. (Here is a pic of the male)

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Eric

Wow! She is huge! And absolutely beautiful!!
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Cheers!
• Chelsea Lynn Gardiner
(and Frank M. Wood)