Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have an 08 desert king female and an 08 gray-banded alterna male king. When they're both mature, I'm considering breeding but I was wondering what the results would be. Does anyone have some pics of a gray-band alterna crossed with a desert king? Is this combination even possible? From talking to breeders at shows, the consensus is yes it is possible, but I'd like your feedback.

Thanks!
-Vince

If you feel you need to ask this question, then you may not be ready to try breeding a getula with a mexicana. Unless your willing to lose your alterna.

You do understand one is food for the other. So you most likely will need some experience with behavior in order to complete this type of Hybrid pairing.

A few years ago, I was feeding a thayeri to a getula(cal king), and instead of consuming her, he bred her. So now I have second generation hybrids from that accident. So yes, its very possible.

There are many things you can do to increase your chances of success, you should know these before you attempt this. Cheers

Why were you feeding a thayeri to a Cal king? I know some people offer feeder snakes, but I've never heard of offering snakes that are of breeding size to other snakes......but then again, I've only recently just got into getula/mexicana.

Thanks.
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1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

I am wondering that exact same thing.. Why on earth would you be feeding a adult snake that was healthy enough to breed and sucessfully produce eggs to another snake???

~ Mike Russo

Really no offense, but I keep and breed lizards, I love them. Yet you guys feed them to snakes. And you do not care if they are breeding size or not.

Needless to say, I had my reasons. Cheers

toward you whatsoever. I was merely curious. Was there a specific reason or motivation?

I do not see anything wrong here from an ethical perspective personally. Snakes are certainly part of the natural diet. I was just curious as to why a thayeri? I might not have the best grasp on going prices, but wouldn't something like a cornsnake be cheaper to acquire as a food item? I was under the impression that sexually mature thayeris sold for a bit more?

Thanks
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1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

Classic! I breed pedigreed show rabbits, but only very few are show quality. So what do I do with the rest?

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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian

This is a sexually mature thayeri.............not a surplus displaying "lesser" phenotypes.

Why go to the trouble of providing heat, space, food, water, attention, and time to an animal long enough for it to reach sexual maturity and then to "feed it to the dogs".

Makes more sense to me to sell the thayeri and then buy some cornsnakes with the money.

I have to believe FR had a reason he isn't telling us in order for him to do this....not questioning his reasons/motivation though....whatever that/those may be.
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1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

of course I had a reason, and I have explained it before. But that really does not matter.

All the things you say above can be said for a mouse. Why feed off a breedable mouse, when there are lesser mice. What is a lesser mouse?

Kingsnakes consume other snakes, the rest does not matter. A thayeri is no different then a mouse, or a longnose, or a copperhead, which was shown here recently, no one asked about that copperhead.

The real point is, you like thayeri. Or you would not care. So I say, there are folks that like all the things we feed our kings.

Also, you are prejudicing your own thoughts. You say, how could you feed a snake you raised up to adulthood, etc etc etc. Well sir, I did not do that. It was given to me as an older throw away adult. But that does not matter either. Cheers

of course I had a reason, and I have explained it before. But that really does not matter.
I never said it did matter.........like I said earlier, I was curious. Surely you have wanted to know the motivation behind someone else's actions?

All the things you say above can be said for a mouse. Why feed off a breedable mouse, when there are lesser mice. What is a lesser mouse?
Hence why I put "lesser" in quotes.......it is relative, but I was referring to the going market rate.

Kingsnakes consume other snakes, the rest does not matter. A thayeri is no different then a mouse, or a longnose, or a copperhead, which was shown here recently, no one asked about that copperhead.
Yep, I was actually the one that put the copperhead pictures on here, so I am not prejudicing this matter......I was just curiuos and asked a simple question, but like always you attack other people and refuse the answer in the process.

The real point is, you like thayeri. Or you would not care. So I say, there are folks that like all the things we feed our kings.
Again, not prejudicing. I was looking at the situation from a financial mindset(which is important these days). It seems that most typical colubrids whether that be a cornsnake or a thayeri will offer close to the same nutrition as the other. I was simply asking why not put some money in your pocket and pick up a few other future "meals" for that price of one meal?

Also, you are prejudicing your own thoughts. You say, how could you feed a snake you raised up to adulthood, etc etc etc. Well sir, I did not do that. It was given to me as an older throw away adult. But that does not matter either.
Again, not prejudicing. Just trying to get a grasp on things. As I previously stated, I see nothing wrong ethically here. I was merely pointing out that a lot of resources went into that snake---more so than it would be worth IMHO-----to use it as a meal.............but it DOES matter, because it explains a large part of the situation.
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1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

The reason I said your prejudicing this is because to you, its financial. You know, one thats worth more is greater, one thats worth less, is lessor. Sir, I do not agree with this at all.

The problem is, its not financial to me. Therefore your thoughts do not matchup with mine.

Looking at animals as to how much the're worth is very odd to me. For instance, the beauty of a Regal ringneck, is worth a lot. Or the value of seeing a pair of gilas breeding in nature is immense. But its not money.

So yes, your very prejudiced. You put values on this that I do not. Cheers

I completely agree......however you are changing your story.

You accused me of wanting to see one snake eaten, while seeing a snake I "like better?" not eaten.

I like all snakes.
You were questioning my prejudice against species and now you have changed your story.

Of course I am prejudiced as of how the current state of economy and my own personal budget allow............heck, everyone becomes prejudiced when money is tight. I don't see it as a personal prejudice, I see it as an external pressure that has made me HAVE to be prejudiced as to what I can spend my money on.........2 completely different things. do you buy a car because it is the one and only car you want? No, you pick one over the other because it is within your budget even though it is not your dream car..........does that make you prejudiced against(obviously you would be prejudiced FOR your dream car) your dream car simply because you don't have $5,000,000 sitting around? According to you it does.
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1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

Is this the female thayeri that consumed the males you tried to breed her with then you got so mad you decided to feed her off to your cal king?

I heard they don't eat each other or something like that on this forum from someone over and over and over and over. Just asking.

Cheers!!!

"It was given to me as an older throw away adult"

So much for the golden years.. LOL

~ Mike Russo

"So much for the golden years.. LOL"

THIS ALSO DOES NOT MATTER. As a matter of fact, nothing matters quite matter-of-factly. And what IS matter I might ask....well, it doesn't matter. Hey Mike....you look down -- what's the matter?

I am developing a nervous involuntary tic at this point . . .

By the way, I have a lovely indigo to cross with your best alterna. Whether they breed or predation occurs, the result will be the same in the end whether it be an instance of hatching or excretion.
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

Around here the only thing that matters is what FR says matters.

People seem to just roll over into the fetal position whenever they are confronted. Not you Jerry....you've got a fight'n spirit, although a little less than usual lately.
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1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

Must be the German in me. Not that it matters....
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

Hey it must be the german in me too. Not that it matters

Sorry Jerry, but that crossbreeding is not possible at this point.. You see all of my alterna were getting a bit older, so I fed them to my dog. Hey it's the circle of life right?

~ Mike Russo

Circle of Life? Mannnn, too many showings of Lion King in the house, eh?? LOL. Wow, sorry to hear that..........but hey, these things have no real intrinsic value. I don't even call 'em grey banded kings anymore actually. As a matter o' fact I've resorted to calling 'em "tubes" and have given up my right to identify spectrum colors as well -- everything is just black. No need to categorize or differentiate anything anymore. Now I can get that Maybach for the price of a Honda Civic......nice!!! Cuz they're just cars.....no different. And never a need to mix apples and oanges ever again -- they're all just fruit...ahhh the beauty of simplicity.
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

i gotta go change i laughed so hard, thanks jerry,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

and they say one's memory is the first thing to go.....you broke the mold buddy . . . and maybe the toilet. I will call you NUMBER TWO in this case . . .

SILENCCCE!!!! You insolent fool. All I wanted were frickin . . .

but instead I get crosses and hybrids. And learn that Howie Sherman is the founder and leader of the militant wing of the Salvation Army. . . . . .
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

How the heck did I somehow get insinuated into this thread? I try to get away from this but I keep getting pulled back in.

Who's yo daddy . . . awww Howie, have a chuckle . . .
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

YIPPEE KIYAY
jerry now come'on if you cross a snake with a snake and you get baby snakes that aint a hybrid now cross a turtle and a snake or a frog or lizard with a snake and BAMM thats a hybrid.
hows that tic?
just wait until i show you my creations this year fun stuff, very shag-a-delic, come on jer lets talk nomenclature.
,,,,,,,,,,,thomas davis
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Morphs... just like baseball cards BUT ALIVE, how cool is that???

my website www.barmollysplace.com

Why would you ever cross an indigo to anything?????

Since we're in the practice of crossing and hybridizing, I'm sure it would be possible. I myself wouldnt try it, but something tells me that certain influences JUST MIGHT push someone to take the plunge. Perish the thought, but . . .

there goes that tic again . . .
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Jerry Kruse

"One often meets his destiny on the path he takes to avoid it". - Master Oogway

BING BING BING, WE have a winner, lol!
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Todd Hughes

this was from an accidental breeding. the owner put the cal king in a pillow case with his gray band and a few months later......................

he put them together for half an hour or so to clean cages.

Dang, that looks exactly like some of the babies. hahahahahahahahahahaha Cheers

Wow, nice. Appreciate all the feedback. Fully willing to admit that I am a complete novice and this breeding idea is years from now. I promise you, my biggest concern is for the well being of my snakes. I just wanted to know if breeding was possible. I wasn't going to bother researching all the details before knowing if it was possible. Anyways, thanks again.

Totally possible, but as stated, probably will end up with one larger getula. I find it hard that sometimes people get weirded out that someone could like one more than another. I have some not so great thayeri, some great thayeri, some so-so splendida and some fantastic splendida. Crossing them isn't my bag, but whatever floats your boat. I feed dead hatchlings off as well as kinked/deformed hatchlings, as there isn't enough time to spend with them all. Work with what you love and let others honestly do the same. If they are kingsnakes, they belong here. If they are hybrids, there is a forum for that, probably a better place to discuss like-minded approaches. What would you keep?

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Todd Hughes

Yo Todd and FR!!!!!
Good words!!! This whole idea that if it cost more it has more worth may be a concept in danger if these economic times keep up. I would love to be able to buy great pair of White Sided Speckled Kings for $300 but wouldn't give $100 for a pair of Ball pythons no matter the Morph. But that is just my preference. That doesn't mean I think Ball Pythons are a bad snake. They just aren't worth much to me. How much is a snake worth to me??? As much as I'm willing to pay. More and more people are going to see it's harder and harder to get "what they want" from a snake as times get more extreme. And we could learn a lot from Breeders of expensive Koi Carp. They know what the word cull means. Or we could look to the example of Tom Stevens. Tom sticks to his guns on prices. And once again I learned that when you try to save $$$ you're taking a chance. You get what you pay for every time. Just my $0.02!

Shalom,

Pat Glazener-Cooney

I sort of disagree. THis is a kingsnake forum, that includes all kingsnakes. The reality is, seperating all these forums makes them very specialized and WEAK. hence all the fighting. If its not what I do, its work, type of thing.

A true hybrid may be breeding kings to pits or ratsnakes or boas or something.

Heck, I heard that they are or did put FOX snakes into the pit group, how funny is that. So breeding a fox snake to a Bull is not a hybrid anymore. hahahahahahahahahahahaha

All and all, this darn forum is too small and narrow already.

I know I have a pea brain, but all those fla king morphs that have no resemblence to a fla king ARE WHAT????? normal kings??????? They are fine and slight crosses are not, hmmmmmmmm see my pea brain does not get that Oh well, snakes in nature are best and pure, hmmmmmmmm for the most part, hahahahahahahaha.

someone who sees this from my point of veiw.

Actually there's a specific definition for a hybrid, which is the crossing of genera or species. The breeding discussed in the orginal post would produce hybrids, and yes, there's a seperate section for those.

Just because they have the common name of "kingsnake" does not mean they're all the same species. Common names can be misleading: starfish, jellyfish or silverfish are not fish (nor should they all be in the same section of a forum).

More and more I see this kingsnake forum being turned into the hybrid forum (probably because that one doesn't get much traffic).

Tim

I completely agree with you that this is a hybrid and there is a forum for that. But hybrid or not, it is still a kingsnake!

Formal logic and subsets! I love it, maybe they need a Vin diagram to help with the lesson.
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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian