Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hi all. I submitted a post a couple days ago about potential building materials, (and was ultimately directed to a previous thread). Several of you recommended using melamine. However, I can't find whole sheets of melamine anywhere near me. And to be honest, I would prefer an alternative anyway because it is very heavy (3/4" thick), and tends to splinter. SOOO, I was hoping to just use wood/plywood. I prefer it because I find it more aesthetically pleasing and versitile, and I could make some lighter enclosures. The problem is finding a paint or stain that is suitable and appropriately non-toxic. So could some of you help me here? Please??? I need to find some paint or stain that will keep out moisture, and that will be acceptable for my dragons. How about a water based acrylic? Is there such a thing? I think I would prefer paint over stain as well.

I appreceiate everyone's insight. Thank you

peace,
wes

Ok from what I understand and I could be wrong so don't quote me on it. I think you would have to use a sealer to seal the wood and then from what I understand you can use just normal acrylic paint on it. I could be wrong though. I want you to understand what melamine board is though. It is basically plywood with a coating over. Really I think your biggest problem is that you cannot find it which would be the biggest problem. Good luck and im sure later tonight there will be more people on here to help out.

I have thought about using other material as well, but it comes back to that melamine is basically the easiest,most convenient to use I think. You dont need to frame it out, you dont have to cover it, you dont need to seal it, its going to help to keep it bright inside the cage, and it is easy to clean. And its not expensive.

On the other hand I have thought about framing something out(like 2 x 2 or 1 x 2) and covering it with a thin plywood, then covering the whole inside with stick on vinyl tile or linoleum....something like that. Just an idea to build something lighter, I know these other cages are pretty heavy.

I didn't frame mine out and I have them stacked one on top of the other. And they are very heavy.
-----
www.midnightdragons.net

Melamine is actually a particle-board, not a ply. A mess of dust, resin and chips all pressed together.

Chris has a good idea with the 2x2's covered with a plywood board. I suspect that would be half the weight of a same-sized melamine cage. If you take a look at the FAQ at proexotics.com, there is an abundance of pics that show simple cage construction for lizards. They are not detailed in that you can see measurements but they are an excellent representation and resource. They use a large trough or tub as the base of the cage and construct from there.

Personally I wouldn't paint the inside/outside of the cage. That is truly your preference. I really dig the natural look of wood. However, you would need to seal the wood to hold heat well and be moisture retentive.

Building cages is really fun! Good luck

Thanks guys. These are all very helpful suggestions. Again, though, i can't find melamine sheets anywhere. I have worked with them in the past for shelving purposes, and can find melamine shelves, but no 4X8 sheets, or 2'X4' precut sheets even. And i would prefer to work with wood anyway becasue it is lighter and does not chip like melamine. So my question ultimately is do you think it is safe to do as "faygo19" suggested by using a sealer followed by an acrylic paint, both inside and out? What I want to figure out first is whether or not doing these things would be toxic to my reptiles, assuming I gave the cages a day or two to "air out," of course.

Kingsnake rocks!!

thanks,
wes

Don't you have Home Depot's where you live? I'd bet any lumber yard could order it for you. It also comes in colors and wood grain if you order it.

I don't know what you mean by splinters. Melamine doesn't splinter at all. Plywood will though. Personally, I like the white melamine because it makes the cages bright. My glass terrariums in the old days were much darker, the white reflects a lot of light.

I figure that by the time you buy sealer, paint, etc. it'll be pretty close to or more than the cost of melamine and you saved a lot of time. But if you like the wood look, that's up to you.

Melamine is also called particle board. It is basically hard pressed sawdust coated with a plastic resin coating (called Melamine). Or Particle board with veneer. I have also seen it called MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard)

All hardware/lumber stores should have full sized sheets, such as Home Depot, ROMA, Beaver Lumber, Cashway, Castle Building Center...and I can't think of any others. These may all be Canadian lumber stores..except the first, but pretty much anywhere you can get large sheets of plywood you should be able to get melamine.

You can use plywood sealed with a clear coated varnish such as Urethane or even a shallac. Just make sure the final coat is completely dry and you leave at least 24 hours in a well vented area to completely cure (or longer, check what it says on the can). Most indoor paints and varnishes that can be used around children, are safe for dragons.

Floor underlay can be used instead of plywood but you do need to build it on a frame. Below is a cage I had made for me for my first dragon (who unfortunately I had to give to a new home when I moved and wouldn't have my own place for a few months..)I have made similar cages myself but with nowhere near the same skill.

The problem with plywood however, is it can be even more expensive than melamine, if you want it sanded on both sides. Lower grade plywood is unfinished so an be very rough. I would suggest with plywood to get a non-pine version..as spruce may be too sappy and the pine toxins can irritate lizards. If completely sealed, this shouldn't be a problem but pine sap when heated could still seep out. So a hardwood based plywood (fir for instance) would be best. Also buying it finished/sanded on one side (making sure that sanded side is inside the cage (no worries about rough interior harming your dragon)) will make it easier to paint/seal so the inside has a nice finish.

Another thing about using plywood or even floor underlay if you use the frame method, is you want the inside to be extra sturdy, so more coats of a clear varnish either over the wood directly or as a finish over paint, will provide a hard coat finish to make clean up easier. Covering with a vinyl mat tac type sheet will help protect it too.

Particle board or melamine doesn't chip that much, if you work with it properly. Pre drill all holes and use screws instead of nails. A proper saw blade designed for cutting melamine will help chipping around cuts as well. Making sure not to place screws too close to edges or using too big of screws, or drill bits will help ensure less chance of splitting. I have used flat headed wood screws, size 8 that are 1 1/2 inch long. (which use the + or star shaped screw drivers..I think they are Phillips screws..but could be wrong) For predrilling i used 1/8 of an inch drill bits designed for wood.

-----
PHLdyPayne

You'll want to use a special screw when working with particle-board called confirmat. They have a very deep thread pattern and will hold up better than a wood screw.

Great info PHldyPayne. And bravo Wes, you have started a good thread here.

Yes the Confirmat screws are designed for the particle board. But, I use/used 1 5/8 course drywall screws on all my enclosures without ever having a problem. I predrill and countersink first though.

Thanks for the very helpful info! And I can't take all the credit for the thread

Just use plain old ordinary drywall screws (sometimes called Deck Screws, if they're coated). There is a stouter bodied version called a laminating screw that is a little better. But whatever screws you use, it is critical in melamine to pre-drill.

As far as painting goes, I cut and lay out all my pieces, pre-drill my holes, they paint the boards before I put it all together. It's a whole lot easier to paint that way and dries much better. I just use spray paint for mine and leave the pieces sitting out on my porch a couple of days to air out before final assembly.

why not use a trough?

I actually have a 95 gallon trough I am using at the moment for 5 small dragons. And I have seen several examples of how to build on to those for a very nice enclosure. But I am wanting to build some stackable enclosures that can serve as furniture quality pieces. Perhaps that is some useful info for our discussion. I want to make these look really, really, really nice. In fact, I want to make each enclosure a two-piece creation that joins together at a 90 degree mitre-cut angle in the middle. So they will stack up like 2 "L's" on top of each other and fit conveniently in the corner of the room. It will also allow me to give my dragons more space.

w

Please post pictures of this when you are done. Hope it turns out nice!

I have built a few cages for my dragons all from plywood. I used combination of 3/4 and 1/2 inch, stained the outside and clear coated the inside. It gives it a more furniture look and isn't as heavy. I like to customize them depending on the need, most of mine have removable tops, but can also be stacked. Here are some pics that I could fined.

This 1st one is an 8x2x2 with removable devider, it is almost done in these pics.

This is a completed pic with my 2 girls in it.

Here is another one I built this one is 4x2x2, went with sliding glass doors on this one compared to the swing down plexi I did in the previous one.

They weren't hard to make and just make sure you let the stain or sealer completly dry and I let it air out for at least a week to make sure there is no residual odor. Sorry couldn't find any before completion on the 4x2x2. They are actually really bright inside the clear coat helps reflect the light. Hope this helps any questions feel free to ask... :O)
-----
1.1 spider
0.2 pastel
0.1 pastel het ghost
1.0 mojave het ghost
0.1 lesser
1.0 lemon blast
0.1 fire

Wow! Thank you very much! This extremely helpful and encouraging. It is the way I am going to go, I think. I will post some pics when I am done.

wes