"Once again, you think you know me....lol, The 1 Burmese Python I currently keep is by choice, it doesn't mean I havn't had prior or past expereince with Anacondas, Retics, Burmese, Scrubs, ect..ect...I just at this moment in time only have (by choice) 1 Burmese Python."
No, I don't think I know you. I based my statement on what you said, which is all I have to go by. If it's any consolation to you, I am not an expert. I don't know it all. I'm still learning even after all these years. I most certainly don't think I'm better than you or anyone just startng out. If I did, I wouldn't be participating here in the forums trying to help people with their problems. I'm not a big-time breeder/dealer and have absolutely nothing to gain by my posts in these forums.
I've lareday told you that I thought your message was a good one. I just pointed out the irrelevancy of the connection to it that you made. That's not to be considered a negative for your message, just the connection you made.
"I do not see anything wrong with trying to push for standards in my hobby,"
Me either!
Look, you've got passion for the animals. That's we need to help straighten things out & keep this industry afloat. I can understand you taking some of my comments as a personal dig at you, even though I said they weren't. After reading my comments later I can see how they could be taken differently than I intended them to be. My apologies if it came across the wrong way to you. One of the pitfalls of text versus phone or personal conversation.
The majority, or the gist, of your last post is spot on! As far as I'm concerned, at least. I wish you'd quit selling us short by stating this is your last comment or reply on the subject. This is what needs further discussion & consideration. And we need your help, as well as others'.
If you want to know something about someone, read their posts. Search the forums for their username & see what the majority of their posts are about.
"do we really need videos showing hundreds of Retics hatching? publically showing the mass production of them?"
While it could be used negatively by a few, a video of such can be very informative to a lot of people. We have to be careful not to allow the actions of a few dictate our lives & the education of many. Granted, there is a time & place for everything, so you may be talking about a specific incident that may've been inappropriate. I don't know. But I don't see a thing wrong with posting videos of such on reptile fourms, at least. Should such a video not be shown in a documentary about the health & reproduction of pythons from a reptile enthusiaist's viewpoint on the Discovery Channel? I say, "Go for it!!!"
"I would like to see breeders and sellers be more supportive of fellow keepers who have questions, But what I see more of is pictures of the newest morphs hatching out. Those posts get two to three times the replies of someone asking a husbandry question...There seems to be lots of hype with not much support."
I would also like to see more breeders/sellers helping out with questions. Believe me, I know exactly what you're talking about. I've pondered it many a times. Please follow me closely and read what I have to say:
For almost 40 years I was a private keeper that never had a desire to breed any of my reptiles. Why? Basically because I just enjoyed keeping them, observing & studying them, their habits, etc. There appeared to be plenty of people breeding the types of common reptiles that I kept so I felt there was no need for me to add to it.
Over 4 years ago my son wanted his own Burmese python. I wanted to get him a morph and not a normal but couldn't justify the cost at that time so I scrounged around and found/bought two normals that were double hets, just in case I decided to try my hand at breeding later on. That way I wouldn't be producing a bunch of normals that I might have trouble selling & finding good homes for. It's easier to find good homes for the more costly morphs because most people that spend more than a few hundred dollars on a snake are gonna take care of it.
So, here I am 4yrs later, a small-time breeder that has talked to quite a few big-time breeders. Now I see things from a viewpoint that I was unable to see as a non-breeder, private keeper. No, my views haven't changed to suit my desires, it's just that it makes me more aware of things previously unthought of.
We all have to be careful about how we say things or else it can easily be interpreted as talking about the farmer with our mouths full. I don't think that's quite what you're doing but it can & will be considered as such by some.
Some breeders may mostly only post pics of their latest morph creations and rarely, if ever, reply to "help" posts. On the surface, it looks bad to some people, but there are a lot of things that need to be considered & known before we can accuse them of just showboating.
1) New morphs are always exciting to see & even more exciting to have produced them. It's most always the result of years of hard work & dedication.
2) Some of these people are professional breeder/dealers - meaning that this is their job, how they make a living & support their family. Being self-employed as such takes up a lot of their time so they may not have much free time to devote to answering husbandry/health questions.
3) There are some sellers that aren't breeders, and it's not unusual for some sellers not to know the answers to some help questions.
4) Yes, there are some people that flat out post pics just for advertisement, and it works. However, if we're not careful and complain too much about it then only non-breeders/sellers will be allowed to post. We don't want that to happen for many reasons. One would be we'd be less informed about what morphs are out there & what two or three morphs combined can produce such-n-such morphs.
5) Yeah, posts of morphs by breeders generally get more responses, recognition than "help" posts. Part of the reason for that is a number of people are here to learn but don't know enough to help out with certain problems. Plus, a breeder deserves a good pat on the pack sometimes for creating a good looking morph.
6) I've talked to some breeders that used to participate in forums, actually helping with health & husbandry issues. One thing that most of them tell me is that they stopped due to the ignorance of some members on some forums. You tell someone they should do this & that & they do something exactly opposite. Or someone keeps an animal alive for 1 year and begin posting loads of misinformation, thinking they're now experts. It does get old now & then. Fortunately, I don't see much of that here at KS in the forums I participate in. But you can see how it could get old & tiring to some.
I'll probably live to regret saying this & it will either sound the wrong way or get taken out of context, but here it goes: Like I said earlier, either in this thread or the one in the Burmese forum, my purpose for participating in these forums is to try to help people, not for fame or fortune. It's my way of giving back to the community. I'm big on "giving back to the community" in all areas of my life. It's why I'm very active in my hometown community in many ways.
Even though I don't do it for recognition it does kinda bother me once in awhile when I see people singing praises of people that post merely for fame & fortune & don't help out with husbandry/health issues, while others slave away trying to offer good, sound advice the singers can get to where the Kings are. But that's OK. Once in awhile someone will contact me or say in a post that they appreciate what I do. One "Thanks" goes a long ways.
I've busted my fanny for the last 6 - 7 years as President of our local Little League organization. There is no monetary pay, no glory, and it takes a lot of time, stress & aggravation. But you know what? I get rewarded when I see the kids playing baseball games and learning baseball fundemantals and other things that will help them in all aspects of their life.
"This whole hobby is under attack becuase of Retics, Burmese, ect...I just would like to see those keeping and breeding them be a little more vocal instead of expecting the rest of the hobby to defend them or expect thier support."
I think you'd be surprised at how many people are actually working on this issue using other avenues than forums. Yes, there could be more, but things appear to be taking shape. I think we're in better shape for this recent legislative battle than we were a few years ago. But there's still more that needs to be done. You're in the right place, in the right fight, as forum discussion is a vital part of the process. But there is one body & many parts. Getting the body coordinated ain't easy, but I think it's happening.
Hang in there!
Mike
(HH)
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American
www.natures-signature.com
I may have some interesting scars but hell, I lived through it and usually was much happier than I would have been being protected.
