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Can anyone comment on the differences between BRB and PRB? I have read they get a bit larger but are there any differences in care? Are there any good breeders out there?

Jeff-I saw your beautiful PRBs. Can we expect some babies in the future??

Thanks!

Dan,
...There has been a lot of hype and misinformation about Peruvian Rainbows, Epicrates cenchria gaigei for a long time. There is an interesting photo in the Ross and Marzec book from 1990. The PIC shows a very pretty Rainbow Boa, much prettier than Brazilian Rainbows that were generally available from breeders back then. The caption says it is a Peruvian Rainbow Boa. That PIC got a lot of people interested in Peruvians. BTW, there was very limited internet info on snakes back then and WAY less print information about them back then. The problem was that the same photo got published in one of the reptile mags a few years later but the caption said it was a Brazilian Rainbow. I do not know for sure whether the snake was actually a Brazilian or a Peruvian but people got it in their heads from the photo that Peruvians are prettier than Brazilians. The truth is that the two subspecies "look" very similar. The only accurate way to tell them apart is by scale counts. Peruvians have fewer and larger scales. Scale rows at midbody are usually 41 to 43 on Peruvians and 45 or more on Brazilians. There are enough around with scale counts of 44 to keep us all confused. My guess is these snakes are crosses. They are probably either naturally occuring crosses from Central Peru or crosses produced by breeders either accidently or on purpose. On the other hand there very well may be some naturally occuring Brazilians with the lower scale counts. True Peruvians come from south of a line about across the middle of Peru. Most of the Rainbow Boas north of that line are Brazilians. There are many reports of snakes with intermediate scale counts from either side of but within about 50 miles of the line. Legal export of all boids out of Peru has been extremely limited for many years. There was a breeder in Iquitos who was legally exporting Brazilian Rainbow Boas that he produced under a permit from the Peruvian government. He honestly repesented them as Brazilians but many of the people who sold them in the US advertised them as Peruvians. What I have noticed in most, but not all of the Peruvians I have identified with the lower scale counts is that they are generally darker and redder more than orange though there are quite a few orange ones and the orange ones are usually very pretty orange. I have also noticed that they have thick and very distinct dark markings. This is more noticeable on their heads. There are plenty of pretty orange and dark red Brazilians with dark markings so this is by no means an accurate method to identify the different subspecies. I have also seen that many of the true Peruvians grow to be larger and heavier snakes than Brazilians. Older adults often have very large heavy heads though very old Brazilians sometimes have large heads. Finally.....the new reorganization/reclassification of the Rainbow Boas will probably lump Brazilians and Peruvians together as either just the species Epicrates cenchria or the subspecies Epicrates cenchria cenchria.
Jeff

>>Can anyone comment on the differences between BRB and PRB? I have read they get a bit larger but are there any differences in care? Are there any good breeders out there?
>>
>>Jeff-I saw your beautiful PRBs. Can we expect some babies in the future??
>>
>>Thanks!

Jeff,

Thanks so much for the information. Very interesting. On a side note, do you recommend that book you mentioned "The Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boas" or is there a newer/better book out there about care and husbandry?

>>Dan,
>>...There has been a lot of hype and misinformation about Peruvian Rainbows, Epicrates cenchria gaigei for a long time. There is an interesting photo in the Ross and Marzec book from 1990. The PIC shows a very pretty Rainbow Boa, much prettier than Brazilian Rainbows that were generally available from breeders back then. The caption says it is a Peruvian Rainbow Boa. That PIC got a lot of people interested in Peruvians. BTW, there was very limited internet info on snakes back then and WAY less print information about them back then. The problem was that the same photo got published in one of the reptile mags a few years later but the caption said it was a Brazilian Rainbow. I do not know for sure whether the snake was actually a Brazilian or a Peruvian but people got it in their heads from the photo that Peruvians are prettier than Brazilians. The truth is that the two subspecies "look" very similar. The only accurate way to tell them apart is by scale counts. Peruvians have fewer and larger scales. Scale rows at midbody are usually 41 to 43 on Peruvians and 45 or more on Brazilians. There are enough around with scale counts of 44 to keep us all confused. My guess is these snakes are crosses. They are probably either naturally occuring crosses from Central Peru or crosses produced by breeders either accidently or on purpose. On the other hand there very well may be some naturally occuring Brazilians with the lower scale counts. True Peruvians come from south of a line about across the middle of Peru. Most of the Rainbow Boas north of that line are Brazilians. There are many reports of snakes with intermediate scale counts from either side of but within about 50 miles of the line. Legal export of all boids out of Peru has been extremely limited for many years. There was a breeder in Iquitos who was legally exporting Brazilian Rainbow Boas that he produced under a permit from the Peruvian government. He honestly repesented them as Brazilians but many of the people who sold them in the US advertised them as Peruvians. What I have noticed in most, but not all of the Peruvians I have identified with the lower scale counts is that they are generally darker and redder more than orange though there are quite a few orange ones and the orange ones are usually very pretty orange. I have also noticed that they have thick and very distinct dark markings. This is more noticeable on their heads. There are plenty of pretty orange and dark red Brazilians with dark markings so this is by no means an accurate method to identify the different subspecies. I have also seen that many of the true Peruvians grow to be larger and heavier snakes than Brazilians. Older adults often have very large heavy heads though very old Brazilians sometimes have large heads. Finally.....the new reorganization/reclassification of the Rainbow Boas will probably lump Brazilians and Peruvians together as either just the species Epicrates cenchria or the subspecies Epicrates cenchria cenchria.
>>Jeff
>>
>>>>Can anyone comment on the differences between BRB and PRB? I have read they get a bit larger but are there any differences in care? Are there any good breeders out there?
>>>>
>>>>Jeff-I saw your beautiful PRBs. Can we expect some babies in the future??
>>>>
>>>>Thanks!

Specific information in the book is out of date BUT, anyone who is breeding or planning to breed any boid should own this book and wear it out reading and rereading and referencing it. There is no better source of information for breeding boids.

>>Jeff,
>>
>>Thanks so much for the information. Very interesting. On a side note, do you recommend that book you mentioned "The Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boas" or is there a newer/better book out there about care and husbandry?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Dan,
>>>>...There has been a lot of hype and misinformation about Peruvian Rainbows, Epicrates cenchria gaigei for a long time. There is an interesting photo in the Ross and Marzec book from 1990. The PIC shows a very pretty Rainbow Boa, much prettier than Brazilian Rainbows that were generally available from breeders back then. The caption says it is a Peruvian Rainbow Boa. That PIC got a lot of people interested in Peruvians. BTW, there was very limited internet info on snakes back then and WAY less print information about them back then. The problem was that the same photo got published in one of the reptile mags a few years later but the caption said it was a Brazilian Rainbow. I do not know for sure whether the snake was actually a Brazilian or a Peruvian but people got it in their heads from the photo that Peruvians are prettier than Brazilians. The truth is that the two subspecies "look" very similar. The only accurate way to tell them apart is by scale counts. Peruvians have fewer and larger scales. Scale rows at midbody are usually 41 to 43 on Peruvians and 45 or more on Brazilians. There are enough around with scale counts of 44 to keep us all confused. My guess is these snakes are crosses. They are probably either naturally occuring crosses from Central Peru or crosses produced by breeders either accidently or on purpose. On the other hand there very well may be some naturally occuring Brazilians with the lower scale counts. True Peruvians come from south of a line about across the middle of Peru. Most of the Rainbow Boas north of that line are Brazilians. There are many reports of snakes with intermediate scale counts from either side of but within about 50 miles of the line. Legal export of all boids out of Peru has been extremely limited for many years. There was a breeder in Iquitos who was legally exporting Brazilian Rainbow Boas that he produced under a permit from the Peruvian government. He honestly repesented them as Brazilians but many of the people who sold them in the US advertised them as Peruvians. What I have noticed in most, but not all of the Peruvians I have identified with the lower scale counts is that they are generally darker and redder more than orange though there are quite a few orange ones and the orange ones are usually very pretty orange. I have also noticed that they have thick and very distinct dark markings. This is more noticeable on their heads. There are plenty of pretty orange and dark red Brazilians with dark markings so this is by no means an accurate method to identify the different subspecies. I have also seen that many of the true Peruvians grow to be larger and heavier snakes than Brazilians. Older adults often have very large heavy heads though very old Brazilians sometimes have large heads. Finally.....the new reorganization/reclassification of the Rainbow Boas will probably lump Brazilians and Peruvians together as either just the species Epicrates cenchria or the subspecies Epicrates cenchria cenchria.
>>>>Jeff
>>>>
>>>>>>Can anyone comment on the differences between BRB and PRB? I have read they get a bit larger but are there any differences in care? Are there any good breeders out there?
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Jeff-I saw your beautiful PRBs. Can we expect some babies in the future??
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Thanks!

I second that. It's a great book and a wealth of information. I got my first copy, used a number of years ago and and now on a second. Definately worth finding a copy.

That picture in Ross and Marzec's book is what got me wanting a Peruvian Rainbow Boa and was my inspiration for the vivarium I keep my Rainbows in. I actually found one at East Bay Vivarium but it turned out to be rather muddy and dark looking. The guy there told me to look at this Brazilian they had and I ended up taking home Adam (a much better deal considering at that time Peruvians were a tad more expensive).
In my opinion The Reproductive Husbandry of Pythons and Boas is a must have.
Paul

THE BOOK has a lot of history for me. I got my copy in 1991 the very day they came into the East bay Vivarium. Dr. Ross dropped them off personally and was kind enough to sign my copy. I also purchased a pair of baby BRBs from him. That pair wen on to produce my very first hypos.

While there have been many many advances in herpetoculture since that book was first published, It is a great starting point. It was really a milestone in the history of our hobby.
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Mike Lockwood
www.tooscaley.com

Neat story!
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Julie
www.[url ban]/gfx