Reptile & Amphibian Forums

This set of studs are breeding three females this spring, Just woke them up.




Thanks
CHRIS FLOWERS WEBPAGE

Beautiful snake!

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1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

Which one?

Frankly both! But that first one is amazing! What kind of phenotype is that called? - "Milksnake" ?
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1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

I would call it a "intermediate" its blotch's are just really big put if you could see his side its not banded like a milksnake, and he has to big of blotch's to be Leonis.
Some breeders used to call them "intermediates" but ya dont hear that term much more these days, but thats what I call him.

As one of the pioneers with thayeri, both in captivity and in nature. I would like to say this.

Your first picture is a borderline milksnake morph. But yes, milksnake. Your second picture is what we called Thayeri. That is a normal typical thayeri in patter. Which is red/orange bands, bordered by black, and tapering or becoming absent on the sides.

The big question now is, what is a leonis. Baically, a leonis was an alterna type thayeri. Lacking red, incomplete bands, spotting on the neck, reduction in head patterm. I have a picture of the the second leonis known. I will have to dig it up.

Most these days call anything with narrow bands a leonis, as in thin banded. Well, thats not what they originally were. And yes, its only names. But all these names have origins and reasons for their origins.

When collecting Thayeri, the vast majority were normal thayeri, like your second pic, with a brown or grey base color.

ALso, like what happened to alterna, which were once thought to be different species, I collected a gravid milksnake morph, that produced both leonis and milksnake phases. This happened with alterna, a U of A biologist captured a gravid Alterna on 163 and it produced both alternas and blairi morphs. That was published and alterna was sunk as a subspecies.

I actually met that fella and saw the snakes.

While doing field work with L.m.thayeri, we found that most of the individuals actually keyed out to be L.m.mexicana. Only with different colors. These animals were keyed out by U of A biologists at the time.

Anyway, we all know there a maze of thayeri patterns, but they started with the two extremes, milksnake(blairi) leonis(alterna) and the most common in the field, normal thayeri. Of course, I was the first to find and produce Black thayeri. BUt as far as I know, that was the only one ever found. I produced blacks from that animal, and Bill Garska, produced some from normals found in the exact same spot. Cheers

Probably a dumb question, but what kind of substrate are you using there?

Its not a dumb question.
Its CAREFRESH its more expenisve than aspen but way better. Way less cleaning.

Ah, ok cool. Thankyou.

Those thayeri, to me, are absolutely STUNNING!!
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Genesis 1:1