Reptile & Amphibian Forums

OK, i would like this line thing maybe cleared up for me a little. I know that we all see Balls for sale and other than the morph name they often have a line(breeder name). OK, so when does that "Line" name go away or when can it become my line?

OK, i buy a Albino "XYZ" line and breed him to a normal male. I get 1 Albino. If i sold (lets say) her, is it still an "XYZ" line Albino?

OK, what if i take that baby female Albino and 3 years later breed her to a normal male and she has 1 baby Albino, is that baby still an "XYZ" line?

I am guessing people keep the line attached to the morph so it can be sold for more money, but when is it really not that line no more?

Lets say i got an 1.0 Albino "XYZ" line and breed him to a 0.1 Albino "ABC" line, are all the babies "ABC"/"XYZ" line or are they all a new line? "My" line???

Does a Albino have to be wild and i buy it and breed it before it can be "My" line?

I grow Bonsai(small old looking trees in pots) and i buy trees but do not call them mine for at least 3 or 4 years. When bought, the tree has been styles by another person, so its not mine. But, over a few years as i style it, trim it, take branches away, the tree slowly becomes "My" style, then i would show it or call it mine. Is Ball Pythons in any way like that or am i way off?

Would like to hear thoughts on "Line" and when or if ever lines change? Thanks... JAZ

My opinion:

A breeder names a line or a line gets named after the breeder when it is a new animal. You cannot buy a Graziani line Pastel male, breed it to 5 normal females, and then call the offspring your line. Take Pastels again, if a WC or CH animal comes into the country via Africa, you buy it, and prove it out to be a Pastel, it is your line. As far as breeding a Graziani line to a Bell line with reguards to Pastels, I would not know what to call it other than a Graziani X Bell line.

OK, so if i breed a Graziani Pastel to a Bell Pastel i get a Graziani X Bell Line Pastel. Now lets say i then breed one of those baby Pastels to a Clark line Pastel, will it be a Graziani X Bell X Clark line?

So when does it stop? What if i like something about Graziani's line and also something different about Bell's line and try to get the best of both? Does that not make it mine? If the babies show a little of each in one, then did i not make a new line and can call it "My" line?

Why must it come from Africa? Why can't i take the best of one line(or what i like from one line) and breed it to another line and then create my own line? Would it not be what the breeders are doing now? They breed out what they do not like and when they get a snake they like and make more, the call it their line.

So can i do that too? And what if i use a morph from one line and mix it to a different morph of another line to create a new morph(Bell Albino X NERD Axanthic = Snow), will the Snow from this be "My" line?

Thanks... John

I do not know that NERD has an axanthic line to make "your" own snow line. But hey, knock yourself out....If you want your line of something, buy a CH ghost, and name it after yourself.
The pic is of MY ALBINO, not my line of albinos

Dave

Jolliff line. Does it matter, the point is when making a line, does it matter where it comes from or who breeds it? The question is, when is a line really a line? There are Albino's from NERD, Clark, Jamie Quick, Sutherland just to name a few. Why is an Albino have so many lines? Clark was the 1st, so why are there more than just Clark lines out there?

Did the other breeders buy the 1st proven Albino's from Clark and then through generations of breeding they named the babies after themselves? Did they buy new Albino's from Africa, bred them and named them after themselves?

What does it take or when is a line no longer a line and becomes a NEW line?

QUESTION, if say NERD buys an Albino from a small breeder because they just need more stock, then in a few years it breeds, they sell the babies, Are they NERD line? If yes, why, the parent were not from NERD stock. Or is it because it was sold by them that its just called NERD line? In that case, why can i not call mine "My" line? JAZ

I think some lines that are named after a breeder are actually incompatible with each other. If you take a 'vpi' line axanthic (they proved out this particular mutation) and bred it to a 'joliff' line axanthic (proved to be a similar mutation at a different genetic site) I believe you will get hets for each line but they will be normal looking. This is how I understand it.
I think it can get tricky when the lines are compatible as with some of the albino mutations.......

Anyone else wish to clarify?

I would always follow the genetic line of the parents. If nerd did not import a founding parent of new blood they would not call it a nerd line, they would they that nerd is working with the clark line. The founding line is desirable for the reputation of the color or pattern of the founding offspring and the desire to have genetic diversity. I might buy from two different pastel lines to make sure I have unrelated pairs. If you combined two lines and named it after yourself and I bought them looking for new genetic diversity I would not be happy to find that they were the result of the same two lines that I might already be working with. If you bought snakes from other breeders and made a new morph you could name it but the lines would remain the same. eg. xyz morph produced using a "x" joliff and a "y" sk.

I understand. That is true, i see if you bought my line and it was a result of 2 lines you had, you would not be getting new, but a 2nd generation and would not help you. OK, thanks... JAZ

If NERD bought one of my albinos, which are Brian Sharp line, NERD should sell them as Sharp line albinos. Brian Sharp I am sure has Kahl line albino boas, and sells them as such.

To get a new line, I feel it has to come from Africa, or from captive animals that had a "new" line baby, not related to any known animals. So you go into a pet store, there is an unusual looking animal, you buy it, prove it out, it is your line. I was not going to get into this but I guess I will. Two examples:

1-This is true by the way, I bought a nice looking hypo appearing female at a local reptile store. She was sold as a normal, has no lineage attached to her. If I prove her a genetic hypo, I will name her and her hypo offspring Reid line Hypos. Now, SHE will be the new ingridient, because to prove her out quicker, and with no inbreeding, she will be bred to a known line male Hypo.

2-Second example, also true, (he is in the pics) I purchased a ball from a guy I know which is unusual. It looks nothing like any known morph, and may prove out genetic. If he does, I will name it, and it will be my morph. Now, if Ralph or The Sutherlands call me and say hey, your new ball looks alot like this one we have, and we have named it already, then my snake will be called whatever they have named it, but MY line. Like the Axanthics, all axanthics, just different lines.

Dave

1st, very nice Ball in the photo. OK, i understand better now. You put it well and i see what you mean. Its got to be new or unrelated to what's out there, just breeding a line a few generations does not make it mine. I can see the point in that.

I hope i can get as lucky as you in the Pet stores, just nothing good up here in Minnesota.

Also, sorry for the way i responded to you on another form, was not called for. Thanks for truly answering my question. I now know and learned something, thanks... JAZ