Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My second king, first is a splendida. I was told this is a gray banded, but it seemed half patterned and half aberrant. Interestingly, his belly from his head to his mid is solid white with no black "freckles/spots", but from his mid to his tail there are black "freckles/spots". From all the pictures and reading I've done I want to say he's an alterna... but I'm not 100%, so what do you guys think?

He's an alterna. I will defer to the experts on the locality, but my amateur, wide net says the central to western part of the range.

Is he eating yet? I bought a blairs med/dark phase at the show, and while he's not on pinkies yet, he breaks out the steak sauce for anoles...

Yeah, he has been eating whole pinkies from day one, I've had him for two weeks so far. At purchase he seemed a bit thin and sure enough when I got him home he drank water for quite some time and fed the first day as well. He's rounded a bit more since then. He digests his food particularly fast... so I've been giving him a pinky every 3-4 days because he still seems a bit thin, but I guess most alterna are compared to getula? I'm a little concerned about internal parasites because I've noticed some yellow in his stool, and maybe that explains his need to feed so much. When I say yellow, I'm referring to the powder (bones?) that I typically see with their stool. The powder is white for my splendida, and I recently read that yellow can be an indication of internal parasites. I'm getting his stool checked this week just to be sure and keeping him quarantined in the mean time. Seems odd that a captive bred snake would have internal parasites isn't?

not if started on lizards, lol! Don't get me wrong, do what you gotta do, but lizards, frogs, toads and lots of food items contain parasites. Sure looks like an alterna to me, a nice one!
-----
Todd Hughes

He's eating pinkies? Count your blessings - you're 99.999% there!

Hah, I will. Thanks guys.

One thing I noticed about him is that he will refuse it if it isn't hot enough. To heat up the pinkies I usually put em in a ziplock, get the tap running until it's piping hot, (hot enough that you wouldn't feel comfortable running your hand under it for more than a second) and fill up the ziplock about 1/3-1/2 the way. While it's sitting in the bag, I pull him out of his cage and put him in his feeding bin. Sealing the bag keeps the heat in longer, and by the time he's ready the pinky has been in the hot water for about 1 minute. I just wiggle it in front of him with the feeder tongs and he goes "buck wild". If the pinky is just a few degrees cooler than directly from the piping hot water... he'll refuse until I heat it up properly. Also, when I put the pinky in the bag, it's frozen at that point. So keeping it in for 1 minute is enough for the defrost and to heat it up perfectly. Perhaps that might work for ya. Then again, maybe it's easier for me because the person who bought it probably put in the work to get him eating pinkies, prior to my purchase...

I have a new juvenile on lizards right now. I'll try your method day after tomorrow and let you know the results.

Here my daughter's prince (they do have awesome dispositions):

And here he is chowing down on an anole - you can't see his steak sauce, it is right outside of the frame...

This one came fro Larry Briggs and is a very nice snake.

You're feeding eastern lizards to a western/desert snake??? Lots of parasites that his system is not immune to. Good luck with that.

If it's in my backyard, it's in his tummy.

Genius!

Not only that, but pinkie mills aren't all that safe either. My wife's friend owns the cleaning company that cleans up the convention center. She said that when they went in there Saturday night to clean, the guy who "had many refrigerators" was was rolling around naked on a "plastic sheet" coated with little mice and baby oil. I hope you can look at the bag of pinkies in your freezer the same way

I've raised my own mice for 35 years. I feed all my alterna live pinks. I may need to get them started by scenting them but never feed them lizards. If I did I sure wouldn't use anoles but thats just me.

So YOU'RE the guy with "the refrigerators!"

Nope. Not me.

I assume that heating the pink up more has an effect on the smell, the only way I am aware for an alterna to sense heat is by contact.
-----
___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

Hey,

It looks like a Juno Road, Baker's Crossing. I found a DOR that looked like your snake at that locale.

Welkerii

Looks a lot like the Thayeri x Alterna I bought from a guy in Fla years ago. Even had another seller selling them as "thayeri phase" alternas but I recognized the containers and knew he had bought them as Thayeri x Alterna and was reselling as Alterna but added the "thayeri Phase" to them. I'll post pics of them as soon as I can find them and you can decide.

but "thayeri cross" was my first thought as well....
-----
Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I agree that it is not a full Alterna.. The washed out head pattern is no consistant with it being full alterna and the greenish tint has me thinking that there may be some Greeri in it's blood somwhere down the line.

It's a nice looking animal... But, not a full Alterna in my opinion.

~ Mike

Hey Mike,
You're right. Looks almost identical to a snake I bought from you several years ago which you said probably has some thayri in it. That snake is doing great and looks great but definitely not 100% alterna. BA

Perhaps you could share some pictures of yours?

If I knew how I would!! But it looks almost identical to yours. Even the head pattern. Its a wonderful snake and I'm glad I have it but I know its not pure alterna.

Simple as pie, goto photos, login, click upload photos, and the next time you post the photos you uploaded will be in a selectable list at the bottom of the screen.

yearling alt x thayeri pics

Man, actually, I had seriously considered him as a thayeri/alterna cross too. Guess what, I bought him in florida also

I saw a picture of a thayeri that looked identical to mine except orange, but after seeing your pictures I'm a little more convinced. Are alterna/thayeri generally "friendlier" than getula? Compared to my splendida, this guy acts like a little prince... that's why I named him prince charles... haha.

This is the pic of the orange thayeri I saw that made me wonder if mine was part thayeri. The pattern and the body/head seem identical, color aside. Actually, now I'm not 100% sure if this is 100% thayeri, it was listed in Rick Millspaughs Thayeri, Variable, and Nuevo Leon Kings gallery. Does this ring any bells to anyone?

You can count on Rick's animals being pure thayeri. He's worked with them for quite awhile and refined colors and patterns. But, that's a great example of why it can be hard to "verify" a snake without a known or complete history. Especially with the mexicana group, which has shown a lot of variability within specie and sub-specie.

Until you contact the breeder to verify the animals history and lineage it is not 100% anything. It is a pretty snake but my first gut reaction was alterna x thayeri.

If you are buying as a pet then who cares, it is a pretty snake. If you are thinking of a future breeding project this one may turn out to be a bench warmer. It sucks when there is uncertainty in an animals history, but it happens and in those cases it is best to just to not breed it.

Lance
-----
___________________________
Herp Conservation Unlimited

If people really learn from their mistakes, I should be like the smartest guy in the world

"Hard to say. Dave Thomas has had these for sell for several years at the expo in Orlando and now Daytona. He used to sell them for $75 or so and now I believe they are around 40-50 at best. Of course he has some great looking ones so it depends what you can produce. I would say depending on the look , 30-50 will be the best you can get. I have produced some out crossed Thayeri x Alterna this year with another hybrid and they turned out even better than I expected. Very Leonis looking with great colors. Don't know what I could get for these but it would be alot less than nice pure Thayeri or pure Alterna." HDEAN

Found this in a search... I bought mine in Orlando for 45

This thing is supposed to be Thayeri x Ruthveni, het for albino. Picked him up at the Arlington show for $40. Has a foul temper and big appetite for anything.