Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Just got a beautiful cherryhead baby. What are the best husbandry suggestions for this guy? I have some basic info, but I know there is more I can learn. IE, favorite foods. Best Temps, etc.
Thank you..

Matthew

This link will give you good information. The one thing I don't agree with is the use of canned or dry dog food. Please substitute some Mazurri Tortoise chow instead of that advice. Congratulations and enjoy the new Cherry Head. Richard

Link:
http://www.turtlebunker.com/Index-7.htm

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Richard -amazoa-

"Changes in behavior occur when the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

I must have ESP! LOL I just bought some Tortise diet. I think that was the one. He ate his salad this AM like an absolute pig. I wish the Holme's Hingeback was that easy ( Though I got him eating veggies now). Hopefully, they will both eat the pellets, I got the Forest Tortise formula.
Thanks for the Link!

Matthew

Matthew Google this.. age/size specific.. redfoots.com

Since redfoot tortoises are unique in many ways [ they thrive on ANIMAL protein ].. we use a high quality DRY cat food with 46% protein - chicken is the NO.1 ingredient. Unlike "most" commercial pellets, etc. made from 'plant' ingredients.. an entirely different protein.

Unfortunately most commercial "tortoise-food" is made for Herbivors [ plant eaters ].. redfoot tortoises are Omnivors! She was right when she said they will eat most anything.

Also keep in mind.. redfoot tortoises don't "bask" the same way that European/African Herbivors do.. so they get the majority of their D3 requirements from their diet.. not from the UVB rays of sunshine.
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Terry E. Kilgore
Turtletary.com

I got the D3 & Vites covered already. How much animal protein? None of my entries in my books mentions more than a bit of protein..

Matthew

Richard what is it about the dog food you don't like?

Terry
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Terry E. Kilgore
Turtletary.com

Hello Terry,

When you compare most dog foods and cat foods the protein percentage is too high.Our dog food is 24%, I believe Mazuri is 15%. I supplement our females Greens and Mazuri with a X-breeder mouse weekly during the Fall thru Spring and get that added calcium benefit to my laying females. The crude fiber is low in Dog Foods and CatFoods varying between 3-7%. Mazuri has 18% and that just helps the bowl movements adding bulk. Fat in Dog Food and Cat Food is for the most part there for maintenance of the fat layer in warm blooded animals with. I feel the 10% fat range often found in dry Dog and Cat Food is unnecessay and obviously alot higher then the 3% found in Mazuri which was scientifically developed for the Galops and found suitable for many other species of captive raised tortoises. Myself I don't want to feed a warm blooded food to my cold blooded tortoises. But I know folks do it. Our tortoises remain healthy after years of putting up with my nutritional husbandry not using dog and cat foods so I'm good with that----later Richard

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Richard -amazoa-

"Changes in behavior occur when the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

I don't Q? those numbers one bit. ( actually my main concern )

Richard do you believe a redfoot tortoise is Omnivorous(?).. therefore they need and thrive on a high(er) protein diet; which is their main source of D vitamins since they don't 'bask' like Eastern hemisphere tortoises do?

We feed the cat food ( 46% protein - chicken ) once a week.. you feed a mouse once a week.. the difference?

Mazuri is designed for Herbivorous tortoises { low plant protein }. Is there a 'commercial' food designed for forest/jungle Omnivorous tortoises.. that meets their high animal protein needs?

Not ALL tortoises are painted with the same brush folks!
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Terry E. Kilgore
Turtletary.com

Redfoots do eat carion from time to time in the wild but not as often as they do Greens. I think are goal is to make sure new owners realize over use of high protein diets can be rough on the kidneys. As we both know hydration is important with the higher levels of protein some breeders utilize. An experiment in South America involved a vet feeding 20 redfoots diets high in protein pelleted fish food. He also maintained the amnimals in very shallow water. The shells remained smooth with the tortoise having rapid growth. The vet concluded the high water environment is flushing the system sufficently to avoid pyramiding but the jury is out on the liver and kidney functions of these tortoises. My concern is with new owners relying too heavily on these high protein dog/cat foods and not providing Greens and fruits Redfoots need and require. My feeding the mouse is comparable to the high protein diet but without the high fat and low fiber of the canned dog and cat foods. I judge the nutritional health of my female redfoots on their consistent and predictable egg laying habits paying alot of attention to egg shell thickness, egg size and actual hatchlings making it. The Female pictured in my previous post lays every 40 days 5-8 Eggs from August thru May which is approximately 8 - 9 clutches per year with a 80-90% hatch rate.
She is awesome. So in closing I caution new owners to not rely on high protein processed diets alone and mix it up---Richard

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Richard -amazoa-

"Changes in behavior occur when the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

Richard I don't know why you mention 'canned' dog/cat food in the same comparison with DRY cat food. I certainly wouldn't suggest feeding fish food either.

The greens we offer are high in calcium and fiber: hibiscus leaves and flowers.. dandelion leaves.. curly endive.. escarole and collards as staples - 2 days - then fruit such as black plums 1 day - then greens 2 days - fruit 1 day - then the re-hydrated DRY cat food dowsed with pure calcium carbonate powder.. after 6 months of age for the next year. Then we skip ( feeding ) about every 3rd day for the next year.

Any idea the age of that female [ and her mate ] you mentioned? My hatch rate isn't that high yet because my females and males are still young/small. I've had to contend with near drought conditions the past 2 summers.. which has had an affect on the breeding activity also. So egg production has been down by 25%-30%.. it's normally around 30 eggs/yr. per female. No breeding equals low fertility..... ya don't have to be a rocket surgeon to 'cypher that one!!!
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Terry E. Kilgore
Turtletary.com

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Terry E. Kilgore
Turtletary.com

Nice Shots. I have 3.4 adult Redfoots with the oldest pair being approximately 18 years old. I bet as your group ages the hatch rate will definately increase. Thanks for sharing your feeding regimen here. It sounds like your use of a varied diet with high protein dry chicken cat food supplement is working for you and your group of redfoots.

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Richard -amazoa-

"Changes in behavior occur when the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

Hi guys, thanks for this wonderful CIVILIZED conversation on diet! It is nice to see you guys sort of disagree but keep it civilized. I think the rest of the people in the group (myself included) can take a lot of diet advice from both of your opinions!

Carole
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www.reptilecare.com

I believe it's quite a bit more than just opinions Carole.. besides [ not speaking for Richard ] it sounds like we're more interested in demonstrating the importance of a practical "care" regime than acting like some ego tripper that won't confess that their 'system' is outdated { WRONG } or they've been deceived by thinking that ALL tortoises are cared for the same. Or the new one that has managed to keep a hatchling alive for 6 months and now thinks they are an experienced keeper.. and their hatchling looks like a pineapple at 6 months of age. We're only interested in the well being of the incredible "carbonaria"!

You can see the results of the OUTDATED caresheets I went by while raising the 3 females [ from hatchlings ] in the upper left of this pic. [ note date ] The smallest was 10" SCL -

And the results of "proper" care of these '05 hatchlings [ @ 3 yrs. old ].. note their smooth carapace growth -

BTW.. Carole how do you post a link? And I've noticed that the last 2 PhotoBucket pics of the egg pips posted different sizes.. although I did 'resize' them to the same size?
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Terry E. Kilgore
Turtletary.com

Hi, when I post a link I just use img within [ ] and then /img but webshots offers me a variety of linking options at varying sizes so I pick the one I want and put it between the bracketed img. Does that make sense? I dont know what photobucket offers for linking options.

Carole
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www.reptilecare.com

OOOOOPS again.. Carole I was asking how to post a link, ie. - the link to your site [ in your signature ]
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Terry E. Kilgore
Turtletary.com

I thought I just went to user prefs and put in www.reptilecare.com. Now when I look there is code there that I dont think I put there. LOL

It looks like this less the quotes and all together with no spaces.

"www.reptilecare.com ""

Carole
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www.reptilecare.com

Believe it or not.. I used to make a living with my "communication" skills. I haven't made my Q? understood yet - OR - I didn't get the explaination.

How do I post ANY link to ANYTHING.. ANYWHERE - ANYBODY???
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Terry E. Kilgore
Turtletary.com

Terry,

Are you wanting to put in a clickable link like the one in blue below? I just made this link for Kingsnake but you can make it go to your site or any that meets kingsnakes rules.

If so you just fill in the Link Url: with http://your site

and then Link Title: Name your site

* These areas you fill in are directly below the automatically attach your signature to the bottom section when you fill out your thread.

If this is not what your asking just let me know...Richard
kingsnake

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Richard -amazoa-

"Changes in behavior occur when the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

Link will appear purple not blue at the bottom of your thread---later
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Richard -amazoa-

"Changes in behavior occur when the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

Is anyone willing to tell me how to post a link?

Please???
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Terry E. Kilgore
Turtletary.com

Are you asking for basic html? If thats not it I have no clue what you are after...

You cant type html here. It gets all wonky but if its html linking you want see here...

http://www.w3schools.com/HTML/html_links.asp

Carole

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www.reptilecare.com

Terry,

When you post a message on Kingsnake or reply to one at the bottom of the page you will see:

Link URL:_____________________

Link Title:___________________

To post a link to turtletary.com type this !

next to LINK URL: http://www.turtletary.com

next to Link Title: Turtletary.com
Turtletary.com

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Richard -amazoa-

"Changes in behavior occur when the pain of staying the same outweighs the pain of change."

One reason a "rodent" is a good meal compared to dog/cat food is because it is a "whole animal" Thats why snake keepers dont talk about adding "suplaments" Vit/Ca minerals ect. to serpent diets.You have got to keep in mind just how often is a tortoise going to find a dead animal in a hot forest(come one come all) without putting itself in danger of becoming food itself.There is a reason they are long lived.They will spend some time muching on a bone/grissel,when the bad guy's leave .Vic............pic.. "dont wake me up unless you got a bananna"!

Come on Vic.......
[ you have to forgive him folks he's an old "Hippie" - "..pass that over to me man..."... I mean.. that's what I was told ]
How did what you feed snakes have anything to do with feeding redfoot tortoises???

Agreed.. snakes are "rodent-control".. that's their "staple" diet!

A chicken farmer friend asked me what would be a good 'protein' source for her adult redfoots? DUH! She said it [ a chick ] was like a killer whale after a seal.. they ate the WHOLE thing. The 'goodies' in a chicken I'm sure are in the 'chicken' cat food.. it's mainly a convenience factor for me. And it provides additional vits and mins [ including D3 ].
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Terry E. Kilgore
Turtletary.com

its just a good meal in a fuzzy wrapper.No nasty can smell'in up the kitchen,saves on land fill.Gives an American guy right down the road a job rais'en mice up by the zillions.Just do'in my part so my tortoises don't wonder around looking for small tin cans.If you want to have some fun try live mice to Chinese box turtles! see'ya I got go back out to Manouria land. Vic

Thanks Richard.. it's easy to get "nice shots" when working with redfoot tortoises. Back to ya.. good looking gang!

This one was a challenge.. got real lucky -

Show us one of your "Nice" hatchlings???
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Terry E. Kilgore
Turtletary.com

LOL. I didn't mean to start a major debate. But its been pretty informative really.
Lucky shot my butt, put food in front of the little gluttons & they eat like there is no tomorrow! LOL

Matthew

We're just havin' fun Matthew!

Did you ever get your ?'s answered?

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Terry E. Kilgore
Turtletary.com

Mostly. & Keep the coon away from my herps! LOL

Matthew

Pyramiding and liver/kidney problems have been linked to humidity. I can't remember the actual process well enough to describe it here, but it was recently discovered that pyramiding is caused externally and not internally, because of dry scutes. Renal failure and other problems related to the liver and kidneys are also linked to dehydration which is often caused by low humidity.

Sorry for the little off topic thing. I do think that feeding too much protein is bad, but a little can be beneficial, and for redfoots I make it a habit. The choice of what kind of protein is the bigger decision in my opinion.

Hi, I have a hermanns tort that I got as a hatchling in 1996. I followed all the instructions off of tons of sites that agreed low protein, not overfeeding plus lots of uv. Well I have a somewhat pyramided hermanns tortoise. If we only knew then what we know now. Now they say that even baby hermanni need more humidity. I'm guessing this is why my adult redfoot looks so much better than the hermanns. Its more obvious to keep a redfoot with higher humidity. They get more humidity now but its a bit too late for their scutes!

The one I raised is the female on the right. I can't take responsibility for the pyramiding on the male (left)

Carole
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www.reptilecare.com

Could it be a genetic trait (defect) in that line of Herman's? Well, I'm just trying to ease your guilt a bit.

Matthew

Don't worry about guilt. There is still a lot we don't know about reptiles, and the low humidity=pyramiding thing has recently come to light. There was really no way to know about it back in 1996. The problem comes when the information is out there and people don't follow it and end up with problems. This obviously wasn't the case.

I never feed my Star tortoises ANY [ animal ] protein Ryan. But would you believe they like to sit around in their water-dish.. all of the time?! [ the ambient humidity is 'bone-dry' ]

Of course not so with the redfoots.. I spray them right out of the egg.. and never stop. And when outdoors in the summer the sprinkler system runs at least once every day.. which also enhances breeding activity.

Terry

Stars

Trying to raise a group of stars on soil so that they can burrow? Or giving them a shelter with high humidity?