Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I tried to feed my king Henry a fuzzy today, and it did not go well. In case you didn't read my post before, he's about 18 inches long, and has been successfully eating 2 pinkies every 5 days. I've been feeding him almost exclusively f/t pinkies, but the place I got the fuzzy from only had them live, and I figured it would be good for him to have a live one occasionally. Long story short, he was scared [bleep]less of it and wanted absolutely nothing to do with it. I feed him in a separate container, which is a medium sized critter carrier, and he wanted nothing more than to just keep trying to get out of the cage. I make a point of taking him out of his cage and holding him before putting him in there, and he usually does alright with it, but he wanted nothing of this fuzzy.

Since he didn't take to it, I threw it in the freezer. I'm thinking about trying it again tomorrow with it thawed. Would that be a bad idea? Could he really be that attached to pre-killed prey that he just wouldn't want a live one? Should I maybe give him the two remaining pinkies that I have? I really thought he would be interested in live prey but apparently not. I fed him last Saturday by the way.

Feedback would be GREATLY appreciated here, since I'm so new to this, and I definitely don't want to do anything to upset Henry!

If there's any other information I can add, please just let me know.

This is an almost exact copy of a post I put in the other thread, but was advised to post a new thread for it, so here it is!

Maybe try feeding him one f/t pink and then throw the f/t fuzzy in right after.

n/p
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1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

Great minds think alike!

That is what indictment suggested in the other thread actually. I might try that tomorrow!

Yea, give that a try!
But yea, he also might be just spooked about eating live prey. I have seen some snakes really take a liking to thawed vs. live, and some that have not cared either way. It pretty much seems like he may prefer thawed.

Keep us posted!
Billy
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Genesis 1:1

I guess in my ignorance I just hadn't really given that any sort of consideration before I saw him freaking out. That's rather strange that he's such a wuss!

Its not about being a wuss. Its about natural behavior. Snakes and many animals, find a prey source and use it until its no longer supports their needs. They they move on to another.

In other words, if the snake gets hungry enough, it SHOULD try to feed on ANYTHING, including you. And yes, they will.

In the meantime, you have basically trained the snake. And yes, it will feed on Live in time.

Also, it is funny that snakes do have different personalities and actually react in a very individual way. Good luck

He also might not be big enough to eat it yet... I have had to keep some snakes of mine on pinks for a bit to get them large enough to eat fuzzies. My baby Cal king I got in Aug finally was only ready to eat fuzzies after it was eagerly eating 3 pinks per feeding every week. You cant feed babies enough at this point. While its good to get them to larger prey, with more bone mass to help the snake to grow more bone and thus size, the snake has to be large enough to be able to make the next step.
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1.1 Newton County, IN Bulls
1.0 Texas Redish Bull
0.1 Kansas Yellow Bull
2.1 Red X Yellow Bulls
1.0 Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada Bull
1.1 Carolina Northern Pines (M from NC, F from SC)
1.2 Henderson County, NC Black Rats
1.1 Gray Banded 'Blair's' Kings
2.2 Coastal Cal Kings
1.1 Speckled Kings, Harris County, TX
1.1 Eastern Chain Kings (M from GA & F from NC)
1.0 Hogg Island Boa
1.2 Ball Pythons

Yeah i second that one of my snakes wouldnt take fuzzies until he was at 3 pinks per week then he was ready and now i cant slow him down he just eats and eats

Great point as well! I highly agree!!!
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Genesis 1:1

The snake that you posted a few days ago is plenty big enough to handle a fuzzy, so the size of the meal is not the issue here. Next time you feed him try leaving him in his own enclosure, he is comfortable in there and you may get a better feeding response..

One question.. Is there any way that he is going into a shed?

~ Mike Russo

I don't like to feed him in his own enclosure because of the aspen bedding. He's been doing fine eating in the separate enclosure, and I feel much better about feeding him in there.

No, he shed about 2 weeks ago, so he's not due to shed yet.

Mike actually brought up a good point, which I highly agree with.

Your snake should be getting fed in his own enclosure.
If you are worried about aspen sticking to the food item, do this simple thing. Clear out the aspen where the hide box is, exposing the bottom of the cage which would now be free of aspen, and put the food item on the cage bottom. Place the hidebox back over the original area, and let him go in the hidebox to find the food. That way, he can eat in the privacy of his hidebox.

If you are thawing out the mice, just make sure they are really dry, and then you may not have much of a problem with any aspen sticking to it. Or better yet, place a small plastic dish or container with the food item in the cage, so he can eat it there while it is on top of the aspen.

Hope this helps!
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Genesis 1:1

I like that idea of clearing out the aspen under one of the hides and putting the food item there, I'll definitely try that!

Thanks for the input

I took your advice and ran with it! I cleared out an area of the glass for the hide, and then rather than leaving it on the glass I just put down a paper towel, and then added the hide on top of that. I figure this is a more permanent way to do it, since I'll just need to change the paper towel occasionally, right?

The mice (one pinky and one fuzzy) are currently thawing, but I think this is going to work out nicely!

So I'd first like to point out that I have zero experience with feeding him inside his bigger cage, which is when I got the aspen.

I cleared out an area under a hide and put some paper towel down on it, then put a pinky in there to start out. He's showing absolutely no interest in the pinky in there. How long should I give him to eat it in there before I take it out? In his separate feeding cage it was always easy to see how long to give him, because he had nowhere to go hide and if he didn't show interest after a few minutes I would pretty much give up, but in this cage I just don't know what to do.

Please help asap, because I've currently got the pinky in his cage (Just put it in about 10 minutes ago) and don't want it to go bad in there or something. (That may sound dumb... just bare with me please!)

First off don't panic..

Just leave the pinky there, turn off the light in the room and leave it alone for a few hours or even overnight.. if it's not gone in the morning then toss the pink or feed it to another animal and try this again in a few days..

If you just switched your animal to a new larger inclosure sometimes it takes a few days to get back on track with feeding.

~ Mike Russo

Alright, so it's fine to leave it in there for a few hours? That's a relief.

I didn't just put him in this enclosure, however ever since I've been using this enclosure I've been feeding him in a separate enclosure. This is my first attempt at feeding him in the enclosure.

Thanks a lot for your response, that makes me feel better.

Is it normal for him to take his time in getting to the food? Perhaps moreso when he's not used to being fed in his cage?

Changes do effect feeding in some (NOT ALL) snakes.. So, if it's happening then in this case it is normal.. The fact is that sometimes snakes refuse meals for a week or 2 for no reason at all. It's nothing to worry about, like i said, leave the meal in there, turn off the all the lights and leave it alone.. If he does not eat then try it agiin in a few days.

~ Mike Russo

Man I'm starting to get annoying with the amount of times I've replied to my own thread... But I'm just filling you guys in as it goes down.

He just ate the pinky! Hooray!

So now I'm currently thawing out the fuzzy to see if he'll take to that too, trying to thaw it out quick while he's still in feed mode.

I'll probably come back to tell you how it went before too long, that seems to be my current trend lol.

In the future have the other meal thawed out and ready to go. He might not have that feeding response by the time the fuzzy is thawed. One more thing, make sure that fuzzy is COMPLETELY thawed out before you give it to him or you are asking for a whole different kind of trouble. I am glad he ate. Like mike has said, do not panic. I have a cal king about the size of yours that has been off feed for weeks. He will eat when he is ready.

I originally thawed the fuzzy out at the same time as the pinky, however when he was so hesitant to take the pinky I was afraid he wouldn't take it and I the fuzzy would go bad sitting out too long.

I'm so new to this snake care thing, and every time I try something different that becomes more and more apparent to me.

I am no master at this myself but it is good you are willing to learn and listen. Shows you care for your snake!

Oh most definitely! I'm absolutely crazy about him. I'm searching these forums every day looking for better ways to do the things I'm doing, and new things to do that'll improve things for him!

Thats great. That is what we all come here for. Some things will work for your setup and other will not. You will have to choose what is best for you and your snake. Some of the guys on the forum have VAST experience on most problems you will encounter. Glad you dropped in.

He still hasn't taken to the fuzzy. Since that feeding response is gone from the 1st pinky do you think that it's almost a lost cause at this point? Should I maybe take him out and try again in a few days? I'd really rather not lose the fuzzy forever due to leaving him out too long!

That is up to you. I would probably take it out and try again next feed with the pink-fuzzy method. If you go to a show or look on line you can find fuzzies real cheap. (pinks and mice too for that matter)

Alright I'll do that for sure.

The problem with buying them online is that in theory they are cheap, but the shipping costs are just not worth it for just one snake.

I am going to a show in early March though, they usually carry loads of feeders there?

Yea, if he doesnt' take the fuzzy this time, no biggie. Absolutely nothing to worry about at all.

Remember though, since you fed him in his cage this time, it is a different scenario than what he is used to.

It may even help to just keep feeding him the pinks the next few times, in his cage, for him to get used to being fed in his cage, if he is indeed stressed about the change of scenery in regards to feeding. Then, try a fuzzy.

Now remember, when you feed him, like Mike said, it is best to leave him alone. You would be surprised how good snakes can sense us watching them. Make it to where when you feed him, you won't be messing with him for a few days at least. Make the whole meal experience for him as stress free as possible.

And also, like I said, if he didn't take the fuzzy this time, no worries. Maybe just make plans the next time or after.

Heck, I have a pine snake that could eat the size of mouse I have been trying to give her, but she insists on eating smaller mice than what I thought she could eat. That AND she prefers for me to leave the room, so she gets fed last.

Snakes can be individuals when it comes to feeding time. It is all part of the fun of learning on getting to know your pet!
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Genesis 1:1

...from your snake's perspective. You are putting it into a container with no cover, no place to retreat. Snakes don't like being in the open, especially little ones. Then you throw in a foreign creature, larger than it's used to and a lot more active than it's used to (alive vs. dead)!

I try and feed my snakes in tubs as well, mainly because I don't want f/t "mouse juice" in their enclosures. The really shy ones, however, require a little more privacy so I add a hide to the tub. If that doesn't work, there's always this trick I learned. It's how I finally got one of my wild caught pyros to eat for me.

Put the mouse in a small container with an access hole cut out:

Place the container in the enclosure:

Voilà! No mouse juice or ingested aspen to contend with!
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Diego

SWCHR

Ok, I might have spoke too soon about your snake not being big enough to eat the fuzz, however I will share my experience if I may. I feed many of my snakes outside their cages, but in white deli cups with white lids on them, sitting on a heating pad that is on the lowest setting, not to overheat the snake, and turn off the lights in my snake room, or place a towel or matterial that shuts out the light of the container and then leave it alone for about an hour and even my most reluctant feeders eat, as they did last night-, 3 baby black rats, 2 baby bulls, 2 baby speckled kings, and one sub adult gray band. The most reluctant feeders I left for 2 hours and all went well. Now, as you can see there are many ways to skin a kitten as shown here. Please do what you feel is right and these guys on here know their stuff , we just do what we have found to work for us and our animals. Good luck!
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1.1 Newton County, IN Bulls
1.0 Texas Redish Bull
0.1 Kansas Yellow Bull
2.1 Red X Yellow Bulls
1.0 Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada Bull
1.1 Carolina Northern Pines (M from NC, F from SC)
1.2 Henderson County, NC Black Rats
1.1 Gray Banded 'Blair's' Kings
2.2 Coastal Cal Kings
1.1 Speckled Kings, Harris County, TX
1.1 Eastern Chain Kings (M from GA & F from NC)
1.0 Hogg Island Boa
1.2 Ball Pythons

When you give the snake that much time to eat, is it safe to assume you are feeding them one item per snake? Or do you put multiple in there with them?

On some it might just be one item, for others it might be 3 or more. It all depends on my observations of past eating experiences. An especially shy eater tends to get more time alone to figure out if it wants to eat or not, versus the ones that practically grab the food out of the tongs.
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1.1 Newton County, IN Bulls
1.0 Texas Redish Bull
0.1 Kansas Yellow Bull
2.1 Red X Yellow Bulls
1.0 Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada Bull
1.1 Carolina Northern Pines (M from NC, F from SC)
1.2 Henderson County, NC Black Rats
1.1 Gray Banded 'Blair's' Kings
2.2 Coastal Cal Kings
1.1 Speckled Kings, Harris County, TX
1.1 Eastern Chain Kings (M from GA & F from NC)
1.0 Hogg Island Boa
1.2 Ball Pythons

I'm a little late on this thread, but here's my 2 cents:

If I'm feeding smaller rodents and Zorro has been reasonably active, I usually offer 2 mice to start with. She isn't shy, so I don't have the that factor to deal with. I watch her eat, and if she's fairly aggressive with the second prey item, I offer a third.

The first mouse goes down like this:

Then she just gets lazy...or full...

To viboreo: That's a good idea for people who are afraid to feed in their enclosures.
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0.1 Banded California kingsnake - Zorro
1.0 Betta fish - Billy
0.0.3 White Cloud Fish
1.0 RES - Chopstick
0.1 Australian Shepherd - Jet
0.1 Domestic Shorthair Mix Cat - Pirate

Please don't tell me you put a live fuzzy in the freezer to kill it. That's pretty messed up. It's a mammal, not a reptile.

Actually, most mice and rodents killed for reptiles are simply given pure CO2 first then frozen. If you think about it, a snake takes a live rodent in the wild, wraps its body around it, and constricts it more and more until the rodent can not breath anymore, and it suffocates- as it goes through all the trauma. Freezing is actually less traumatic, though CO2 is the least. If one can not deal with the fact that something has to die in order for the snake to eat... that person might want to re think their interest in keeping snakes.
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1.1 Newton County, IN Bulls
1.0 Texas Red Bull
0.1 Kansas Yellow Bull
2.1 Red X Yellow Bulls
1.0 Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada Bull
1.1 Carolina Northern Pines (M from NC, F from SC)
1.2 Henderson County, NC Black Rats
1.1 Gray Banded 'Blair's' Kings
2.2 Coastal Cal Kings
1.1 Speckled Kings, Harris County, TX
1.1 Eastern Chain Kings (M from GA & F from NC)
1.0 Hogg Island Boa
1.2 Ball Pythons

So it's a bit after the original thread, but it directly relates to it and I didn't want to start a new thread just to give an update.

Last night I put a pinky and a fuzzy in Henry's cage on a paper towel under a hide right before bed. Woke up this morning and they were both gone! So thank you all very much for your advice, it was all very helpful. Hopefully he will continue to eat like this and I can make this his new ritual, eating while I'm sleeping. I think that it should be when he feels most safe.

Thanks again, just in case anyone actually reads this lol.

I would wait to feed its' next meal when you have evidence of it evacuating the just fed meal, and congrats! Keep at it and soon enough the snake may well come up and out waiting for you to feed it, lol!

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Todd Hughes

p.s. look how big the mouses head is compared to the snakes head and mid body, it doesn't usually take too long to get them up to size, and this is a speckled, one of the smaller varieties. Thanks Tom!
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Todd Hughes

Thanks for the support, I'm looking forward to watching him grow!