Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Have you ever used a vet? And if so, for what? Are they any good for anything except a fecal exam and prescribing panicur, Flagyll ect ???

I wonder if FR has ever used vets services.

I recently spent about $300 at a veterinarian. I had a snake X-rayed, examined, had blood work and cytology done. None of this gave a clear picture as to what was wrong with the snake. The snake died a couple days later. The last $75 I spent was on a necropsy. It was determined the snake had retained eggs (who knows for how long?) and this eventually caused an infection.

Successfully, I have gotten fecals done at the same vet and they were pretty quick at being able to give me the low down on what parasites the snake had. They can prescribe drugs (like Flagyl) that you can't buy over the counter, which is useful.

Panacur is widely available over the counter at feed stores and is fairly cheap at around $10 a tube. Panacur is pretty harmless, and its pretty easy to figure out the dosing if you can weigh your snakes. It takes care of hookworms, pinworms and a few other parasites. This spring I will probably give every adult snake in my collection a Panacur treatment.

foxturtle: Do eggs not show up at all on X-Rays?
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1.0.0 Lampropeltis getula holbrooki
0.1.0 Lampropeltis getula californae
0.0.1 Lampropeltis getula nigra
1.0.0 Lampropeltis mexicana thayeri
2.3.0 Eublapharis macularius macularius
0.0.2 Rhacodactylus ciliatus
0.1.0 Gerrhosaurus major major

Generally eggs should come up on an xray. The eggs might have shriveled or something. I didn't get too many details from the necropsy.

They did not give you too many details except the bill right! I am lucky to have a friend that is a vet.

Check out the Ball Python forum there are pictures of a gravid snakes xrays showing eggs

There are VERY few good herp vets. Even the "servicable" ones tend to let problems fall into catagories instead of fully investigating them. DO NOT pay them $$ and expect a "good" outcome without getting a recommendation.
Anatomy is something everyone who breeds snakes should understand. I always suggest that everyone should use their departed captives as tools in these efforts. The more you can learn from anatomy the more you understand disease. Many remedies are available over the counter(panacur for example), or can be fixed with simple procedures.
Example of something you can do yourself: replacing distended hemipenes. YES, you can do this, its simple anatomy.
Example of something you CANT do yourself: I had a vet help me out performing a hysterectomy on a boa....a first for him as well.
Going forward, know that the majority of ailments(not parastites) brought to a vets office are due to respiratory infections, or kidney/heart problems....and their relations. Most of these problems are caused by inadequate temperature and humidity.

First of all, I have been extremely lucky so far and have not needed to take any of my snakes to a vet...

Secondly, the closest one to me that will even look at reptiles is over 90 miles north of my location, so I'm crossing my fingers that I won't ever need one...

When I begin to purchase snakes and other reptiles for my petshop, I plan on obtaining a good microscope and learning the basics of parasite detection and eradication myself, and hopefully can get on good terms with the local 4-legged-fuzzy-thing vet in case I need any antibiotics for my critters... I also intend on being able to assist anyone I sell a reptile to with basic health and care issues... Otherwise, I think it would be irresponsible of me to open a petshop in a town without a reptile vet.... But hey, maybe I'll get lucky and the local vet will get someone in to care with reptiles after my shop gets opened up... Although I won't hold my breath waitin on that one...
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~Maggie~

"Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious."
1.1 Cal Kings (Spot and Fry)
1.0 Florida King (Gamble)
1.0 Ball Python (Mitch)
0.1 Red Belly Piranha (Fluffy)
1.0 Australian Shepherd (Spooky)
1.0 Springer Spaniel/Beagle mix (Snoopy)
0.1 Cat (Ecco)

...a while back I took an egg-bound snake to the vet. That vet told me it was because I didn't supplement calcium and provide UVB lighting for my snakes. As you can well imagine - I ended up losing that snake. Never going back to that vet...

Last year, I took a W/C Green Ratsnake to a real herp vet and he showed me how to administer flagyl and panacure, which I later did myself for a second W/C.
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Diego

SWCHR

Of course I have, and a couple spectacular events too. Once I had a blackheaded python develop a tumor at the base of its stomach. The tumor was caused by a pine splinter. The Vet(Dr.Jarchow) removed part of its stomach, and a foot or so of intestine. Then pulled it together, sewed it back together. The snake survived about four more years and produced lots of offspring. The event was published in a vet journal.

I have had the vet work over freshly imported varanids a few times and some colubrid reproductive problems.

For the most part, we had reproductive problems, early on, and Vets had no handle on that. So I would often do my own work. In fact, I developed a few methods that were not used at the time(they said it would not work) and not is commonplace with vets.

And yes, I recomend Vets for folks who bring their problems to these forums. As the advice given on forums is usually all over the place and covers from a good treatment, to the bizarre. Also, to be able to diagnose a problem, the snake should be seen and a complete history given, which is not done here.

As with every area of expertise, there are some very good vets and there are some NOT SO good vets. Cheers

I am currently a vet student at colorado state university. I have worked with some very impressive vets, both in zoos and in private practice, on some very cool reptile cases that no average keeper would have even begun to comprehend.

Several important things to consider about veterinary meidcine and reptiles...

There is no certification process for herps veterinarians. So no one can prove that they have any idea what they are talking about. You have to determine for yourself if a general DVM actually knows anything about reptiles or not.

Ask about their experience workling with herps. They should be happy to discuss it with you. Ask if they have done internships, worked at zoos, and what school they went to. Ask if they have reptile pets of their own. The best herp vet schools are University of Florida and Kansas State. (Although plenty of great herp vets come from other programs too.)

Most vets learned medicine first and about reptiles later so they come at things from a different perspective. If you can find a vet who was a herpetologist first you are golden.

Good exotics vets are few and far between and getting to one if you don't live in a major urban area can be problematic. Check the AARV website. If you are really stuck call your local zoo and they may be able to help you even if their staff vet doesn't do private practice

A few cool things I have seen done with reptiles in the past few months... skin grafts after rodent attack, MRI of sea turtles with pnumonia, surgery to save eggbound tortoise, numerous foreign body removals from iguanas that ate carabiners to frogs and geckos with substrate impactions... the list goes on and on.

The bottom line is that YES vets are good for a lot more than fecals and perscriptions. Most wild animals remain fairly healthy IF they are kept properly. Like I said in a post below. Most reptiles present to vets for HUSBANDRY related problems not actual deseases. But herps can get sick and when they do they are just as deserving of quality medical care as any of our furrier pets.

Cheers

While I do believe that sick pets should be seen by a vet I also believe that knowing as much as possible before you walk in the door is important. There are numerous excellent reptile related veterinary text books out there. They are expensive but in my opinion worth their weight in gold.

Buy them if you are interested in educating yourself, but don't think that they will replace a vet.

Awesome post Zach!! I highly agree with everything you said!! Big thumbs up!!

Take care!!!
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Genesis 1:1

you have to respect a doctor that has a patiences that can't tell them what's wrong or what their symptoms are..I'm in Iowa and I've seen a vet at work..gross..but for a 15 - 200 hundred dollar reptile..to get a 300 dollar vet work up...NAW...it's stock..animals die..that's what makes them alive..chalk it up to "poor husbandry"..and learn from it...or go broke
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Richard Evans

no not THAT one

Thats one way to look at it.

When people come in with their kid and a 6 dollar frog, and you give them a 200 hundred dollar quote, you can see them doing the numbers. So I always ask them, do you want A frog? Or do you want THAT frog? Either one is fine but some people consider them more than just stock.

It also helps when choosing a reptile vet to see if the vet is a hobbyist him or herself. My vet who is also a friend, but became a friend after I met him, has been a long time snake breeder and enthusiast. He ran the exotic animal hospital, while his wife is involved in the general practice. Now that his wife became equal partner in the general practice my vet friend decided to become a stay at home dad, and now raises feeder rodents, roaches and breeds snakes with his business partner and is never at a loss for clients to get his rodents, esp with the Carolina Raptor Center close buy. I trust his advice most because HE IS A BREEDER and hobbyist, and thus he does to his own stock what he tells me to do. The point being, look for more factors than just the person saying they are a herp or exotic animal vet- see if they are a hobbyist as well and look at their stock and see how THEIR stuff is doing.
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1.1 Newton County, IN Bulls
1.0 Texas Red Bull
0.1 Kansas Yellow Bull
2.1 Red X Yellow Bulls
1.0 Medicine Hat, Alberta, Canada Bull
1.1 Carolina Northern Pines (M from NC, F from SC)
1.2 Henderson County, NC Black Rats
1.1 Gray Banded 'Blair's' Kings
2.2 Coastal Cal Kings
1.1 Speckled Kings, Harris County, TX
1.1 Eastern Chain Kings (M from GA & F from NC)
1.0 Hogg Island Boa
1.2 Ball Pythons

I rest my case..LOL..cattle - tadpoles...if it's living..it's gonna die. econonomics be damned.
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Richard Evans

no not THAT one

I think your average person will say, "I'll just get another frog". And that is something your going to have to deal with, but that IS the nature of people. My wife is also in vet school, and what you say is very accurate, but it is because of that attitude. A reptile does not display emotions like a dog, and even though you got a dog for free on the side of the road (example), its life "somehow" has more value than a snakes, or (I know this was touched upon in another thread) since we all like kingsnakes here their lives are more important than a lizards, or a mouses...but really that is BS that us humans put value on.

I breed thousands of rodents, but I spend hundreds of dollars on THIS rat at the vet, to someone else he was worth less than $5.

His name was Big Pappa and he sired me thousands of baby rats. He was my favorite rat. Long live the line of Big Papa, I still have his great grandkids.

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"Relax, Don't Worry, Have a Homebrew!" Charlie Papazian

An interesting thread, especially I had been wanting to post a question about vets.

I took my Florida kingsnake to a vet last year. I researched and asked questions and was told this guy knew what he was doing with snakes. I went because my snake wasn't eating. He did a fecal and told me all was well, just to increase his humidity.
I did, and he starting eating like a pig once again.

Anyway - the question. Our vet sends notices out when our dogs need an update on their shots. Well, I got a card in the mail saying that my kingsnake was due for a fecal.
Any reason to have a yearly fecal done by the vet? He doesn't charge much at all, so that's not the issue - just is it worth it even when he doesn't appear to be sick.

Just a question.
Thanks!
Ray.

If you feed frozen thawed and you aren't bringing new snakes into the collection then I would say its probably not necessary for a snake that is doing well. See the above thread on parasites...

Thanks!