Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Anyone produced pinstripe yellowbelly cross?? Pics?? Also what are the results from breeding 2 codoms in example spider X spider or pinstripe x pinstripe?

I know BHB has done yellow belly pins and lemon blasts. This year should bring yellow belly spinner blast and yellow belly super blast.

If you breed spider x spider or pin x pin you get normals and visuals. Some of the spiders or pins will be the super form/fully dominant form, but they will look just like spiders and pins and you can't be for sure if they are super or not until you breed them. Hope that helps. E

But isn't the reason ther is not a super spider is because spiderXspider is genetically fatal?
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"What are you afraid of? What ever it is, it's here. That and things your little irrational mind couldn't even dream of."

Just this last summer BHB shared breeding results that seem to prove that Pinstripe is the first known dominant ball python mutation. Brian reported on Reptile Radio that he has a male pinstripe (presumably from a pinstripe X pinstripe breeding) that produced a large number of only pinstripe babies bred to non pinstripes. This tends to indicate that male pinstripe is homozygous pinstripe and because it is reported to look the same as a normal (heterozygous) pinstripe it defines the mutation as dominant.

Also, the mutation type doesn't change between when you are looking at the heterozygous version and the homozygous version so we really shouldn't talk about "dominant form" animals as it's the mutant gene that we are classifying and not the individual animals. For example the pastel mutation is co-dominant because the heterozygous pastel animal has one type of mutant appearance (pastel) and the homozygous pastel animal has a different mutant appearance (super pastel). The mutation type is defined by the difference between normal, pastel, and super pastel and doesn't change depending on if you are looking at a pastel or a super pastel.

With spider we still don't know if the mutation type is co-dominant or dominant because no-one has yet come forward with a proven homozygous spider so we ,now if it looks and acts the same as the heterozygous spiders we have now. For years some of us have been wondering if spider might be a homozygous lethal mutation where the homozygous spider eggs don't hatch (or at least don't live to reproduce) but it could yet turn out that just not enough spider X spider breedings have been done and not enough of those offspring bred to find a homozygous spider.

I figured if someone mentioned Spider X Spider Lethal, Randy Remington might chime in. Well put Randy. I couldn't have said it better. Thanks bro! Need any ASF yet?

Randy, not everyone is a rocket scientist or brain surgeon. I tried to explain things as simply and straightforward as possible intentionaly. You are just too intense man. I have been doing this a long time and like to think I know some things and still have to read your posts over more than once.

McCurley had posted on his site for a long time, many spiders for sale from spider x spider clutches and he also has said in the past that he had proven some as super spiders, that look just like normal spiders. That is his info, I do not know more than that but take him at his word. And as I said very clearly, pinstripes that are "supers" look like pins that are not and have to be bred to establish they are the "super" pinstripe.

Sorry, I should have taken the time to make two replies. The part about the pinstripe being dominant was really to the post above yours saying it was co-dominant.

Also it looks like I messed something up somehow in my reply making it harder than usual to read. But in general I don't think it's any less simple to use terms like "dominant", "co-dominant", "heterozygous", and "homozygous" correctly and I've been protesting the "dominant form" in place of "homozygous" for years. Understanding the true meaning of heterozygous and homozygous is key to being able to predict the more and more complex combos we are seeing every year. "Super" is one I try to avoid because I don't know if a homozygous spider that looked just like a heterozygous spider would be considered a super or not. Kevin has said for years that spider is dominant and there is no super but I've never seen him post about having a proven homozygous spider and I think he might be the one who started the co-dominant/dominant form thing. Heck, even if the Barkers posted something I would still think about it before just taking their word so I probably am an over intense skeptic. But if you can point me to anyone who claims to have a proven homozygous spider and will share their evidence I'll probably come around to considering spider dominant but for now I'm really wondering if it's homozygous lethal and I think that would be technically co-dominant.

where did th lethal spider rumor come from? I do 100% recall Kevin had pics and prices of many spiders on his site from spider x spider breeding calling them possible super spiders. E

I wish I could ever get the search to work here. I remember making a post on Kingsnake maybe as far back as 2002 pointing out the POSIBILITY that spider was homozygous lethal. I realize that NERD was selling spiders with the POSIBILITY of being homozygous years back but what I'm still waiting for is anyone who has a proven homozygous spider. The problem is that if it is homozygous lethal it would be very hard to prove. Even proving a single homozygous spider (and hence disproving the homozygous lethal spider theory) would be contentious because we would have to agree how many only spiders from spider X normals it takes to realistically prove a spider homozygous. I've heard rumors of a homozygous spider but not yet anyone who claims to own a spider that has say produced 20 only spiders bred to non spiders.

we produced a few this year. I will post some pictures tonight or tomorrow

Thanks jon
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Thank You
Jon and Amanda
www.albinosunlimited.com