Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Same post...just a bit more urgent. Just as last year, only a few made it to 75 days, then those die. Sooooo scared it's happening again! All of these in this pic were plump and white a week ago...this was yesterday:

The top left...our biggest. We just shined a light into it and saw the lil guy wigglin like crazy!

Top right...This is the one I was asking about. It was sweaty and transparent, but still round two days ago. Yesterday it looked more yellowish and dimpling a bit. Today even more. Very worried. Still healthy??

Bottom left...Smaller than our big one, but getting that transparent "spot" starting. Still healthy?

Bottom right....Started dimpling like 4-5 days ago, but is still very white. Still healthy?

WHAT AM I DOING WRONG????
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2.2.0 Beardies: Albus, Minerva, Bindy,& Baby Gibbs!
1.0.0 Beta: Redda
0.1.0 Furball (aka a cat): Smudge
1.0.0 Hubby: Travis
2.0.0 Rugrats Kyler, 9 and Collin, 6

Before you ask...they're in a herpavator in containers with vermiculite just wet enough to squeeze water from (if we squeeze reeeally hard) The lid has 4 very small holes in them. The temp has been a pretty consistant 84.3 degrees all 75 days.

I JUST NOW put a small container of water in between the containers because I saw it on a youtube vid (shrugs).

Thanks again!

>>Same post...just a bit more urgent. Just as last year, only a few made it to 75 days, then those die. Sooooo scared it's happening again! All of these in this pic were plump and white a week ago...this was yesterday:
>>
>>
>>
>>The top left...our biggest. We just shined a light into it and saw the lil guy wigglin like crazy!
>>
>>Top right...This is the one I was asking about. It was sweaty and transparent, but still round two days ago. Yesterday it looked more yellowish and dimpling a bit. Today even more. Very worried. Still healthy??
>>
>>Bottom left...Smaller than our big one, but getting that transparent "spot" starting. Still healthy?
>>
>>Bottom right....Started dimpling like 4-5 days ago, but is still very white. Still healthy?
>>
>>WHAT AM I DOING WRONG????
>>-----
>>2.2.0 Beardies: Albus, Minerva, Bindy,& Baby Gibbs!
>>1.0.0 Beta: Redda
>>0.1.0 Furball (aka a cat): Smudge
>>1.0.0 Hubby: Travis
>>2.0.0 Rugrats Kyler, 9 and Collin, 6
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2.2.0 Beardies: Albus, Minerva, Bindy,& Baby Gibbs!
1.0.0 Beta: Redda
0.1.0 Furball (aka a cat): Smudge
1.0.0 Hubby: Travis
2.0.0 Rugrats Kyler, 9 and Collin, 6

I use hovabators all year to hatch silkworms. A few weeks ago I thought my eggs had gone bad because I had a zero hatch rate. But, the container of eggs started later completely hatched. It turns out that the sun has changed location in the sky and shines on the incubators in the am. This caused the incubators to get too hot and killed the eggs before they hatched. This is just a possibility of something strange we might not think or that could happen.

I hatch my dragon eggs in the basement. It's cooler there so a sudden warm day cannot overheat them. I replace water lost in the containers every 1-2 weeks. I incubate at about 82. I always keep a bowl of water in the incubator also. Hovabator settings are kind of a range. I would get it so that the high end of the range is no greater than 84. As room temp. changes so does the temp. range in the incubator so it must be checked regularly. I use a control. A container the same size, substrate, moisture, holes etc. and then put a thermometer/hygrometer in it. That way I can monitor the conditions inside the egg containers.

I agree about the basement.....have always had good luck using my incubators in the basement, because it is always cooler than 84......if the room temps go higher than your incubator you're in trouble. 75 days is long......I wonder if there is something else going on here? Is the female the same one as last year that you had similar results? Do you have more than one female this is happening too?

You can setup a relatively inexpensive incubator, with the most expensive part being the thermostat(you get what you pay for). I know plenty of people use havobators, I have myself, but maybe its something to think about. I found a standup freezer(3/4 size), ripped out the parts I didnt need(just kept the shell basically), then wired up my thermostat/heat and was set(also drilled a few holes in the freezer walls to get a little airflow). You can do this with a variety of things.

Thanks for trying to answer my quandaries. Seriously though, we have night owls and early birds living at my house, and a probe thermometer inside one of the egg containers. It's in a dark spot and I promise that it really has never gotten over 85. And yup I check the moisture of the substrate daily.

Yes it's the same female (I've had her since a hatchling), but yeah last year it was the same...3-4 of eggs grew and made it to 40-50 days, and we had high hopes, but they too died. No idea why. Last year's "Dad" was Albie, and we're not sure how old he is...(was a rescue), but he's at least 5 years. This year's "dad" is a youngin'...about a year and a half.

I think the still healthy one is "on time" and the others were like miscariages? Sorry...I'm a mom, so you get mom analogies. lol

No idea why they would grow...only to die I feel horrible about it).

Thanks so much, Chris!

J

>>I agree about the basement.....have always had good luck using my incubators in the basement, because it is always cooler than 84......if the room temps go higher than your incubator you're in trouble. 75 days is long......I wonder if there is something else going on here? Is the female the same one as last year that you had similar results? Do you have more than one female this is happening too?
>>
>>You can setup a relatively inexpensive incubator, with the most expensive part being the thermostat(you get what you pay for). I know plenty of people use havobators, I have myself, but maybe its something to think about. I found a standup freezer(3/4 size), ripped out the parts I didnt need(just kept the shell basically), then wired up my thermostat/heat and was set(also drilled a few holes in the freezer walls to get a little airflow). You can do this with a variety of things.
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2.2.0 Beardies: Albus, Minerva, Bindy,& Baby Gibbs!
1.0.0 Beta: Redda
0.1.0 Furball (aka a cat): Smudge
1.0.0 Hubby: Travis
2.0.0 Rugrats Kyler, 9 and Collin, 6

Are you putting the eggs in the container in the same position as they were laid? They are not being jostled or moved then for the whole incubation period?

Good questions. You may be on to something.

Are you putting the eggs in the container in the same position as they were laid?

Well, see...Bindy lays her eggs weird I guess. She lays them all in one big pile, then tries to bury them all at once. I think it was her first clutch that we came home and she was actually "stomping" on them in her attempt to bury them. I intervened and moved her off of them and "helped" her bury the rest. We didn't see how she buried her 2nd and 3rd.

But yeah, they are always piled so weird...some are even "end up." So I went with the candling method and put the spot up, if that makes sense?

They are not being jostled or moved then for the whole incubation period?

Well, hmmm...as I told Chris, but because we HAVE lost so many, I didn't catch some the eggs before the got mold on them, so we'd carefully move the good eggs to another container. Besides that, no jostling.

Could any of this explain why they would grow seemingly normal,
then die prematurely???

Thanks so much for trying to help me figure this out!
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2.2.0 Beardies: Albus, Minerva, Bindy,& Baby Gibbs!
1.0.0 Beta: Redda
0.1.0 Furball (aka a cat): Smudge
1.0.0 Hubby: Travis
2.0.0 Rugrats Kyler, 9 and Collin, 6

I prepare my incubation containers. Then I care fully dig up the eggs as gently as possible. I then carefully place each egg in an indentation I have made in the incubation substrate. I am careful to move them as little as possible and never turn them. Then I never touch them again until they are dragons. I never candle them. I'm sure I am extreme, but my suggestion is that you should be too. Better to be meticulous at first and then relax as you get more experienced.

I weigh each container before I put them in the incubator and write the weight in the lid. Then every week or so I weigh them and replace the weight lost by dripping water on the substrate, not the eggs until the container weighs the same as noted on the lid.

I have been criticized (I have no idea why) for this but it is a scientific method of replacing water lost to evaporation. Slightly over (1-2 grams)is better as the eggs absorb moisture from the substrate as they develop.

I think also I would consider slitting the eggs at this point. The top right looks like its dead, but you never know. Bottom right looks like it needs to be slit.

We slit open the top right one last night. (That was the one I posted about in the first place) LOTSA fluid, and an underdeveloped fetus? inside. Was very sad.

Thing is, and I just barely thought of this (duh). These are probably from her SECOND clutch (which means none of her first clutch made it ) If so, these eggs are only 48 days. If they ARE from her 1st clutch, I DID miscalculate, and they're 70 days today.

I know I should know for sure which clutch they are, but because we HAVE lost so many, I didn't catch some the eggs before the got mold on them, so we'd carefully move the good eggs to another container, lest they catch the mold. So we got a bit confused.

Thanks again Chris!

>>I think also I would consider slitting the eggs at this point. The top right looks like its dead, but you never know. Bottom right looks like it needs to be slit.
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2.2.0 Beardies: Albus, Minerva, Bindy,& Baby Gibbs!
1.0.0 Beta: Redda
0.1.0 Furball (aka a cat): Smudge
1.0.0 Hubby: Travis
2.0.0 Rugrats Kyler, 9 and Collin, 6