Reptile & Amphibian Forums

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-flbpythons0306sbmar06,0,7773882.story
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Jonathan Brady
*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

"....with the burden of proof on the importer to prove the species would not cause harm."

Hmmmm.... Requiring the opposition to prove a negative. Very convenient. I wonder what the procedure is for importers
to prove this???

Thanks for posting,
Ed

>>http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-flbpythons0306sbmar06,0,7773882.story
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>>Jonathan Brady
>>*You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.*

What a shame that we have such reckless individuals out there that have created such a terrible problem for the eco-system and responsible keepers/breeders.

I certainly acknowledge that there is a huge problem when they claim to have removed 300 pythons in 2008 and 250 in 07, if these numbers are accurate then who can blame those people who are trying to ban them?

I have said many times before that if we don't regulate ourselves then the government will and armed with the numbers and information described in this article, we will be facing regulations.

This problem can not be ignored by our community any longer, I feel that those of us that sell our animals need to step up our responsibility as to what type of homes we send our animals. Unfortunately I can imagine that the "pet store" industry would be one of the main contributors to the sale of that cute little baby python to people who make that type of impulse purchase.

I have been required to show proof of a fenced yard on several purchases of dogs (boxers) that I have made. I can tell you that I actually felt comfortable with the breeders and appreciated their concern that the boxer being a fairly powerful breed would not fall into the wrong hands and create destructive news.

I know I am jumping around but I can't seem to get that "300" number out of my head...does a guy in Orlando who decides he no longer wants his python pack up and make the long trip to the everglades to release it? I would find that hard to believe.

How many people living in south Florida take their unwanted snake to the park to let them go that would generate those kind of numbers? If that many have been removed then there must be thousands of them, or a large breeding population.

Now I would also assume that the majority of these released pythons would almost certainly have to be near easy access roads, I have been to the everglades many times and it is a vast area and not very easy for the average person to navigate.

It is a shame that it has come to this, but at this point something has to be done, maybe this is a pipe dream but I for one would be willing to participate in a program to go down there and capture as many as possible...the sad part is that doesn't solve the problem.

I would love to hear all thoughts on this and suggestions for the solution.

Be well and hope for the best.
Joel Thomas

Joel,

You are buying in to the hysteria, which, imo, is exactly what the AR nuts want. Please go to the Herp Law and CITES forum and read Tom Crutchfield's posts. According to him (and he presents his case very well), Hurricane Andrew was the root cause of the
proliferation of pythons. It was not caused by every other python owner releasing his snake into the wild.

Thanks,
Ed

>>What a shame that we have such reckless individuals out there that have created such a terrible problem for the eco-system and responsible keepers/breeders.
>>
>>I certainly acknowledge that there is a huge problem when they claim to have removed 300 pythons in 2008 and 250 in 07, if these numbers are accurate then who can blame those people who are trying to ban them?
>>
>>I have said many times before that if we don't regulate ourselves then the government will and armed with the numbers and information described in this article, we will be facing regulations.
>>
>>This problem can not be ignored by our community any longer, I feel that those of us that sell our animals need to step up our responsibility as to what type of homes we send our animals. Unfortunately I can imagine that the "pet store" industry would be one of the main contributors to the sale of that cute little baby python to people who make that type of impulse purchase.
>>
>>I have been required to show proof of a fenced yard on several purchases of dogs (boxers) that I have made. I can tell you that I actually felt comfortable with the breeders and appreciated their concern that the boxer being a fairly powerful breed would not fall into the wrong hands and create destructive news.
>>
>>I know I am jumping around but I can't seem to get that "300" number out of my head...does a guy in Orlando who decides he no longer wants his python pack up and make the long trip to the everglades to release it? I would find that hard to believe.
>>
>>How many people living in south Florida take their unwanted snake to the park to let them go that would generate those kind of numbers? If that many have been removed then there must be thousands of them, or a large breeding population.
>>
>>Now I would also assume that the majority of these released pythons would almost certainly have to be near easy access roads, I have been to the everglades many times and it is a vast area and not very easy for the average person to navigate.
>>
>>It is a shame that it has come to this, but at this point something has to be done, maybe this is a pipe dream but I for one would be willing to participate in a program to go down there and capture as many as possible...the sad part is that doesn't solve the problem.
>>
>>I would love to hear all thoughts on this and suggestions for the solution.
>>
>>Be well and hope for the best.
>>Joel Thomas

I have read Toms article, yes it is well written and he always presents himself very well.

If you read my post the way I intended it to be understood you will see that I am asking for explanations and solutions and some of my "statements" are sarcastic LOL...

This is just all food for thought for all of us who want to continue our right to keep these "dangerous" animals.

According to this recent article they have removed 300 fo some type of non native reptile, the article does not specifically say that they were Burmese pythons...at least in that section, however if they are in fact removing an average of lets say 50 Burmese pythons a year then there is still a huge problem.

Maybe I have missed something in TC's article buit I find it hard to believe that if in fact the reported numbers are Burmese pythons that a hurricane specifically put pythons into the park.

I lived in Florida for 20 years and even back in the mid and late eighties I personally worked with a retired fish and game officer and we removed a half a dozen large pythons in the three years I worked with him.

The bottom line is there is an issue there and we need to try to find a solid solution or loose it all. I am going to read TC's article again.

Take care.
Joel Thomas

Please do some reasearch if you're going to post on something like this. I'm not going to be ignorant and say people havn't released animals, but Hurricane Andrew started this. Point blank. It didn't matter whether you were a good caretaker or not, destruction is just that, destruction. Thier isn't a solution. The population is established, and will always be there. It would literally take anyone a week to rattle off the list on invasives we have here in Florida. The plans/safe guards are in place now. Too little too late, but nothing additional is needed as this is a local problem. Yes, the community as a whole needs to watch itself, but will never come together as one. Just way too many differences, jealousy, and ego. The viable solution would be to build a tannery, and pay per foot, per pound, or per head. It would help keep the population down, and help the economy. I know I wouldn't hesitate to spend a few days down their if their was incentive. Unfortunately a 12ft Burm doesn't make good Cobra food, though it may make some decent Human food. Junk Science aside, this is really no different than any other invasive, as many others have the capacity to both harm eco-systems and humans
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South Central Herpetological

First of all a tannery/ bounty would probably be a great step in the right direction...I like that one. You are right about the number of invasive species there, but the biggest problem here is that the public has a fear and hatred for snakes especially big ones. We have wiped out species of animals in the past, money can motivate people to do that.

That is part of the problem with posting, people will read and form an opinion and then make a judgments on that opinion.

I think if you read my post you will see that I am questioning the numbers reported and the impossibility of people letting their animals go specifically in the park.

If you have any information that you feel I should read I would love to read it.

Take care.
Joel

I have no proof in anyway of what I'm about to say. Although I've heard older individuals who have been around exotics and in Florida from way back. These guys say there have been Pythons in the Glades since 60's and early 70's. If that's the case then I would think the population has been growing for years.
Plus when the huge Hurricane hit (can't remember name)in 90's it opened up houses and pet stores .This allowed many of these Pythons to just crawl away.

Here is the statement that completely irritates the heck out of me. Complete nonsense

Made by Beth Preiss, director of the exotic pets campaign for The Humane Society

"Although trade restrictions would come too late for the Everglades, with its entrenched python population, they could prevent the problem from recurring elsewhere. Most of the southern third of the United States — from Virginia through central California — contains a climate and habitat sufficiently similar to the python's southern Asian homeland to support populations of them.

"It may be too late to stop the invasion of the Everglades," said Beth Preiss, director of the exotic pets campaign for The Humane Society of the United States. "But it's not too late to stop it in the rest of the country." "

This cannot and will not happen in any other part of the country.This is some scare tactic no science will back a statement like this up.
If Boids like Boa c imperator(similar habitat needs to Lrg Python) could live in the US they would already be here. Mexico has how many different Boa Locality species , Sonoran , Tarahumara , Cancun,list goes on and on. They can crawl right on up into Texas and Arizona ,New Mexico. They have not , in fact for thousands of years they have stayed to the south. This alone is proof that large Boid species will not populate the US.
Is my reasoning wrong here ?

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

I agree 100%. The most disturbing aspect of this whole thing by far is that someone (a government employ, no less) can get away
with publishing and promoting such inflammatory junk science that a 16 year old snake hobbyist could shred to pieces. It goes beyond snakes. It's frightening that this could happen. Maybe someone could get a hold of Obama. He did say he wanted to bring science to the forefront.

Thanks,
Ed

nothing wrong with your reasoning at all. Like Ed said these politicians and proponents of a ban could be dressed down by most people who have kept reptiles.

As I stated earlier the big deal here is that people fear and hate snakes as there are many more destructive invasive species in Florida that do not get any villon billing.

I had heard and this when I lived there and this is just hear-say that back in the late 80's that billboard hangers had a greater chance of coming across a non-native constrictor than they did a poisonous snake, of course that was when the "hype" was gaining momentum.

Joel

forget it, its over for the pythons but at least there not talking about boas any more.

another thing if floridas having so many problems then keep it to florida i dont see why the other states should have to suffer with this banning situation.

It wont stop with S.Florida, because if there is a ban there and some ding-dong in Kansas lets his large constrictor roam through the house and it attacks a child or someones pet, it will be very easy for the AR activist to place more bans.

Joel

n/p

I live in Kansas which is why I chose to mention that state.

Joel

A lot of connotations out there about Kansas, especially since the evolution vs. creationism stir up out here a few years ago. No offense taken at all, just thought I would throw that out there as a joke. Thanks for thought.

Kelly

Naturally Nelson is going to be yakking it up about pythons in the Glades. The thing is you don't hear him talking about the 1.3 billion that state spent on the US Sugar deal . All of Nelson's environmental buddies were dead set against this deal. The state hired an independent wall street fairness appraiser for a million dollars . This guy said the deal was only worth 900 million and they blew him off. The interest on the loans will cost tax payers in 16 of the country's most beat down county's about 2 billion dollors.

In the words of one of the states top environmental advisers in reference to the US Sugar deal. Charles Lee said ,

"The bottom line is this is a dark day for the Everglades,"

Hummm, why would Nelson go along with this deal when he's acts so concerned about one of the worlds most important environmental treasures and the good citizens . Strange huh ?

The legislation we'er facing is not about right or wrong , science or who is responsible for what . It's about business and appearances . Our best defense is to let the people holding the pens know we'er out here and we care. We have to make them think twice about what their doing and the feasibility of their actions.

Ernie Eison
WESTWOOD ACRES REPTILE FARRM INC.

Ps Notice how nobody's talking about Nile monitors out in the Cape anymore? That's because there's no money to made in the Cape. The Glades well now your talking cash cow.

and Ernie we can't fight that.

Joel

by the way while were on this subject i dont believe in any body or any orginzations that are trying to play or help deal with this mess because where were thay when thay banned the boas and pythons there i use to live in NYC they have already banned the pythons and boas there and nobody ever did any thing about it.