Reptile & Amphibian Forums

DR
Suboc.com

dusty,

Is that a missing scale on the head? and if so is that genetic. I have a rat snake that has an extra scale on his face and noticed he has passed it on to a few of his offspring.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Frank,

Yes, it's a type of genetic phenomenon called pleiotropy. It is genetically heritable...both the Loma Alta and European Albinos have this condition of missing the frontal scale, though it's not harmful. The Loma Alta and European Albinos have now been proven as the exact same. I wonder what we should call them now?? : )

Dusty

dusty.

I have seen this in albino corn snakes as well. But I bet ALL of them won't be missing this scale. It probably is related to inbreeding or the albino gene itself. It is quite common in Albino and Sunglow cornsnakes.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

dusty,

Is the extra scale also a case of pleiotropy ? It was passed on to some of the offspring. Also not harmful, but noticably different.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

If you found 2 albinos not missing this scale and bred them I bet the odds would be better for a non missing scale. I LOVE tag along gene inheritance, it's interesting.

I know the subocs is not being bred in large quantifies, but since corn snakes are and not all of them are missing these scales, it can be line bred to try and "fix" this, the real question is since its not harmful is there really a reason ?
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

You're right about not all of them having the missing scale. A couple out of maybe 30 that have hatched have been born with the frontal scale intact.

There's no way to know whether it was caused by inbreeding, as the first wild-caught albino suboc had that missing scale. Any two random carriers of that allele could have bred, not just closely related individuals.

In the case of the Corns, it's pleiotropy if it's linked to another phenotypic trait(s).

Although a crappy scan, here's a photo the Barkers took of the original wild-caught progenitor of that line -- you can see the missing scale:

I don't think de Vosjoli got the spelling for the genus right in any of his books or periodicals. LOL

Here's another pic of that same snake, ca. the time it was caught (early 1990s):

Dusty
Suboc.com

Its hard for me to imagine seeing an albino suboc sprawled out on the road, I think I'd probably just faint and then it would get away! Darn!!

And if I saw what Eby saw (the blonde experience)I would have dropped dead right then and there! LOL

>>You're right about not all of them having the missing scale. A couple out of maybe 30 that have hatched have been born with the frontal scale intact.
>>
>>There's no way to know whether it was caused by inbreeding, as the first wild-caught albino suboc had that missing scale. Any two random carriers of that allele could have bred, not just closely related individuals.
>>
>>In the case of the Corns, it's pleiotropy if it's linked to another phenotypic trait(s).
>>
>>Although a crappy scan, here's a photo the Barkers took of the original wild-caught progenitor of that line -- you can see the missing scale:
>>
>>
>>
>>I don't think de Vosjoli got the spelling for the genus right in any of his books or periodicals. LOL
>>
>>Here's another pic of that same snake, ca. the time it was caught (early 1990s):
>>
>>
>>
>>Dusty
>>Suboc.com
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts