Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i recently read this while doing research on treating geckos for internal parasites, since geckos are more fragile then lets say a water dragon or bearded dragon, i am afraid to try to treat them if they do come up positive for internal parasites.

below is a quote i found from another forum and it makes complete sence, my geckos are giant leaf tail geckos imported from madigascar, they are thin and the male i have is slightly dehydrated the female looks great but is slightly thin also, i have not seen them poop and i have only seen them drink, i started giving the male flukers repti-aid to help hydrate him and nurish him, the female i havent tried this for because she is in better condition and doesnt need the added stress, its very difficult to get the male to take the supliment, and i know giving him the med will be nightmere, i also know that treatments can cause problems, please read the quote below

"Depends on the species you have. Many researchers and vets are stating that unless the reptile is showing signs of illness or distress not to treat them because a fecal shows some parasites or worms. They recommend good cleaning and diet and rechecks to see if they in fact do not decrease left on their own.

Reptiles do not care for their young, most do not anyway, and they have to build their own immune system over time since they can not get it from their parents. The only way they can do that is by being exposed to something and letting their system develop to deal with the problem. An otherwise healthy reptile can do that given the time and support with good diet and cleanliness like you are doing.

Coccidia and some worms are considered to be a part of the natural gut fauna of reptiles and by treating them we are actually causing the animals more problems and their ability to deal with things later on. And of course meds do not only effect the bad parasites, it also destroys many healthy bacteria that are needed by the animal for digestion and this can start a cycle of on going problems.

Univ of Bristol and Iowa are conducting studies and their theory is that pinworms actually prevent the development of other diseases such are diabetes and gut syndrome problems

NOTE: anytime a reptile is showing signs of illness or his health is compromised, they should be treated by a professional."

I think you are confusing some details of this debate.
"To deworm or not to deworm" is primarily a captive animal discussion. The primary parasites involved, coccidia and pinworms are commonly seen in captive collections and can be difficult to eradicate completely. In healthy, unstressed animals, they are able to limit the parasite's numbers to sustainable levels. Any questionable (emphasis on questionable) benefits of these parasites would occur in this homeostasis.

What you are dealing with is recently imported, wild caught animals. Today the biggest enemy to your geckos is stress. This stress (in addition to unaccustomed living conditions... aka be sure your husbandry is bang-on) contributes to dehydration, inappetance and concurrent weight loss, and a lowered immune system. This immunal suppresion wreaks havoc on any current parasitic problem, allowing numbers to bloom. I think in the case of your lizards, being a rather finicky species at the best of times, deworming is a good idea. On the other hand, when I imported WC house geckos, I wasn't overly concerned about deworming them because they readily adapt to captivity under proper husbandry conditions.

In summary, in healthy captive bred or long term captive animals, deworming a positive animal is a matter of personal protocol.
In wild caught animals where stress related problems are predicted, deworming (likely as a rule, despite what a fecal says) is strongly recommended.

Many common dewormers are quite safe (example, praziquental), and have a large dosage range. Others are easily overdosed, and have shown sensitivites and toxicities in some species (example, ivermectin). Discuss these with your veterinarian.

Ian

thank you very much for clerifing this!
they dont "Seem" to be wild caught but rather farm raised, they are very very calm and dont try to bite, unlike my imported large tokay i had, they show very litle fear to outside stimulation and i notice they are always sleeping in the open and not hiding, wether these are enough signs that they are not actualy wild caught but rather farm raised, or if they even do farm raise these geckos is beyond me, but i do know they are not stressed to the limit they run away from me or try to bite me, but at the same time if i do handle them they are very active and climb all over me. (i dont handle them often)

i think my main concern is definantly hydration right now, once that is done, and if they are still not eating, then i will take them in to gett a test, and if the male continues to not eat i will have to continue flukers repi-aid nurishing suplimental diet feeding with a seringe since he's the one with the slightly curled tail. female i believe wont need to be force fed because she is definantly doingn better then the male...

I don't think these are farm raised, but in essense, that is pretty much the same as WC. The differences in behavior from your tokay might not indicate a "non-stress" status because both species deal with stress in different ways. Tokays are notorious biters and hiders, while some leaf tails rely soley on camoflage and feel safest hiding on a tree trunk in the open.

For hydration, be sure to measure your humidity and keep it on the high end of the species' prefered range until they are well.

Good luck

Ian

thanx again ian
i got them in a exotera front opening 18x18x24, the guy who sold them to me at the reptile expo said that would be big enough but now i know its not. i been contiplating doing some redecorating for my setups and what once was a water dragon enclosure that i turned into bearded dragon shelfs, has space below it that i might turn into a gecko sanctuary. but the crickets would be able to escape and thats just not fun, could make a feeder box from a storage bin where they cant climb out, but idk if the geckos will like coming to the ground to feed.

the 18x18x24 is goingn to be there sick tank for the time being. untill i figure out cricket containment inside the large enclosure
here you can see the farther back enclosure is just a storage area, from closes to far, 40 gal with home made topper for fril dragon, gecko tank, and bearded dragons in the shelf and an adult beardie in the 40 gal furthest back

note that this picture is not the current leaf tail's set up