Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I don't think most of the pet shops in New Mexico are
aware that they may be in violation when it comes to
importing reptiles from other states. This is just another
attempt to try to cripple the reptile industry.

From the Form:
IMPORTATION PERMIT APPLICATION
NON-GAME/ Wildlife Held as Pets

NEW MEXICO DEPARTMENT OF GAME & FISH License Application Fees: $25.00/animal (that's per animal)
LAW ENFORCEMENT DIVISION Fees are non-refundable
SPECIAL USE PERMITS PROGRAM
P.O. BOX 25112
SANTA FE, NEW MEXICO 87504
(505) 476-8064
Fax (505) 476-8166

Please submit this application along with the required documents and the appropriate fee to the above address. If there are
any required documents missing, the application process may be substantially delayed. Application must be submitted at least
two (2) weeks prior to proposed importation. Importation is not guaranteed. A valid permit must be issued before lawful
entry into New Mexico.

Neutrino,

Most folks are aware of this. NMG&F held hearings around the state about a year or so ago to put out the word about this ridiculous law. I found out about it nearly three years ago when I was about to move out west. Most folks are not abiding by this regulation. It is utterly ridiculous. Before anyone can bring back collected animals from a collecting trip they have to apply for a permit which requires a vet health certificate and "sit" somewhere out of state and wait on their permit. Like I said it is utterly ridiculous. I have heard through the grapevine that they are thinking about changing this law to a yearly permit and/or some sort of list system which allows common pet trade animals in w/o a permit. Lists are exclusionary and a bad idea just look at TX for proof of that. You are right that it is just another move to make this industry prohibitvely diificult to deal with. But that is the way it is all heading. Regulatory agencies don't want to deal with it. They would rather use a banning agenda so they don't have to deal with it. And we thought this was America. But you also have "sell outs" from within the industry that don't get it and are helping to support these ridiculous laws. That is why every single person needs to support groups like USARK and PIJAC that are fighting for our rights.

Welkerii
El Paso, TX

Glad to hear you are up on this situation. However; ignoring
it isn't a good idea. Letting these people have this over your head can only lead to an eventual bust of someone or everyone
who imports into this state. I recently contacted a PetCo pet
shop in Las Cruces and they are offering exotic herps for sale. The person I spoke to didn't know anything about the "form".
So; she gave me a main number and I spoke to someone in PetCo's legal dept. They told me there was another dept. I should talk to but I told the women I would send her the .pdf file. This was a couple of days ago and I haven't had a reply.

In the past I've written letters to different states about their wildlife regulations hoping for change but change never comes. I basically gave up. It wasn't until recently that I received information from John Crickmer about USARK. I'm trying to get up to date on what their adgenda is.

It cracks me up how N.M.F&G wants us to pay them to bring in exotics yet they make money off the sale of licenses to hunt
imported Big Game. They don't want our herps to get a foothold
in the environment yet they won't eradicate the Big Game. They seem to justify what they do.

$25 for an anole is a little rough.

Thanks for the reply.

Hey,

I agree that ignoring it isn't a good idea. NMG&F knows that Pet Co and most of the pet stores are not following the rules. I have been to busy dealing with the stuff going on in TX to worry about NM. Although I would be happy to put in some time to try and get some of these ridiculous laws over turned. I just don't have the time to do all the activism I would like. This is why it is important to make USARK and other organizations strong (money and members) so they have the resources to actually pay folks to work on this stuff full time. Then we can use the large numbers of grassroots members to write the letters, make the phone calls and help get this stuff over turned. We need to spread out the work load because there is just so much to do.

Welkerii
El Paso, TX

I know exactly what you mean by being overwhelmed with all of
this. The problem is that we let it go on too long. I'm glad
that a company as big as PetCo is on to this. That's why I made
sure that they received a copy of the "import" form. If N.M.
Fish and Game wants to go up against someone/some company they
couldn't pick a better candidate then PetCo to slap them back in the face. They'll attempt to pick on an individual first before
going up against something as big as PetCo.....in fact; they may attempt to do just that to put PetCo "on notice".

I've been so busy with keeping my head above water financially that I haven't been up to date on what you and your people are
attempting to do. My collecting season is about to start here and I will join USARK as soon as funds become available. I commend you and your people on the job(s) you have done so far....it's an uphill battle. Good work

I will help where I can.

I know you can't do everything. So: concentrate on what's most important and get a couple of wins under your belt. That
will put THEM "on notice".

Good luck.

Hey,

Thanks but we will all need the luck. There are many folks who are busting their hiney to over-turn or stop bad regulations. Those folks are the ones that deserve most of the credit. I participate as best I can. You need to get all your contacts and customers to join USARK, PIJAC and support HB 1500 in TX.

As for the NM situation. If they go after the small guy they will lose for not going after the big boys. The small guy can claim discrimination. Many big businesses just choose to pay the fine over and over again rather then pay for the cost of compliance. If NMG&F is content to let everyone slide then so be it. But I think the regs need to change and I think they are working on that. The only issue is what will they change to? States usually don't listen to out-of-state stakeholders and they are not invited to the table. They also usually do what they want regardless of stakeholders (both in-state and out-of-state). This needs to change. USARK needs to organize state groups that have a set agenda for that state. USARK needs to establish itself as the "herp group" and they are working on that. It takes time but meanwhile we are constantly facing new battles and have very little time to deal with old battles. This is why USARK needs as many members as possible. We all need to be in the same group and on the same page.

Welkerii
El Paso, TX

>>It cracks me up how N.M.F&G wants us to pay them to bring in exotics yet they make money off the sale of licenses to hunt
>>imported Big Game.

Seems like the same thing to me.
-----
AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

I don't think most of the pet shops in New Mexico are
>>aware that they may be in violation when it comes to
>>importing reptiles from other states.

I don't think most CITIZENS are aware, either. What about people who must relocate to NM for their job? It would cost me $225 to legally move there, or technically even to DRIVE through the state while moving to another state.
-----
Chris McMartin
www.mcmartinville.com
I'm Not a Herpetologist, but I Play One on the Internet

Technically you do need an import permit to bring your
animals into New Mexico no matter what the reason. At least
the way I read it. It's like the previous post stated; they may not be enforcing it but I wouldn't want them having that over me. Being an individual and claiming discrimination is great but do you want to pay attorneys to prove it. You can't let these people slide on anything. They have to be kept in check or they
will take everything away from you.

I commend most of the people's efforts in this forum and they are correct in stating that a big problem is doing things state
by state. It IS difficult to protest or put in input when you are
not from the state making new law. More so; is the point made about the States doing what they want anyway. I'm a victim of that. I learned the hard way...you never give them information and you never help them. Never. Anything that wears a uniform
can't be trusted.

"Anything that wears a uniform can't be trusted."

I was not having a problem with most of your statements, but when you begin making statements like the above, I have to take exception to them. There are a fair number of folks in the herping community that are law enforcement personnel and retired law enforcement personnel including those from local, state and federal levels. Some of these folks are advocates for herpers rights and work diligently at trying to change some of the bad legislation that is being passed. No, they are not going to advocate that you go out and violate any law that they have a sworn duty to uphold but most will advocate working to change unecessary and unfounded laws. Because you may have had a bad experience, do not paint everyone who wears a uniform with one broad stroke of your paint brush. By the same token, those of us who do wear or have worn a uniform should not be painting the herp community with a single stroke of that paint brush. You will likely find some rotten apples in both groups. If you will really stop and look the biggest threat to the herp community as a whole comes from people who do not wear uniforms.
-----
Gerald Keown
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research
www.southwesternherp.com

Not from what I've seen.
Law enforcement is going to uphold the law even if they
know its wrong. That includes your law enforcement friends.
When have you known a law enforcement person to just let someone
slide on a violation that they themselves don't like? Bottom line
is that its a paycheck for them and they are only concerned
about their jobs.

I'm very aware of what I stated and I'll stand by that.

I've put a lot of effort into making changes (in print) to
these wildlife people and its a waste of time because they
have an agenda. You can give them all the data you have about
wildlife and they just don't care and they don't do studies.
That I know for a fact. I won't get into the racial and geographical prejudices.

I know there are species in need of protection but blanket
protection of all species in certain states is getting out
of hand.

There's no board of arbitration between the reptile collectors
and state and federal Fish and Wildlife services. They come up
with a law and that's it. Violate and you're a criminal.
Suddenly what I've been doing for years is now a crime.
Maybe that's what we need, a board of arbitration. I've collected
from sites year after year and can collect the same number of
specimens UNTIL they (like the Forestry Dept.) takes out
hundreds of acres of trees. That's ok though because there's money being made at that.

Sorry if you took offense to my views.
Again; I commend these people who are taking on the people
who want to put all of out of business.