Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have two african dwarf frogs in my 20g tank with some neon tetras, khulie loaches, corydoras and dwarf gourami. Got sand for substrate, regular water changes and treated for chlorine; gentle filtration.
Whilst one frog is doing fine, eating well and behaving quite normally, the other doesnt seem so well. He is beginning to look very much like Toad from "Wind In The Willows"... His belly is distended, sticking out from below him and out to the sides, almost looking like he will go pop He spends most of his time floating about at the surface in one corner of the tank. Doesnt appear to be eating much at all now.
Having looked through all the websites I can find, the only thing vaguely resembling his problem is dropsy, but the pictures show the whole body is bloated and not just the belly. One site showed a picture more like my little'un but the caption just said "Barrel Chest - caused by malnutriton or illness". Cant imagine its malnutrition as my other frog is doing ok. They have a varied diet of bloodworms, daphnia, brine shrimp etc.
I have seen some sites where the frog has been punctured with a sharp needle to releive the swelling, but i am not brave enough to try this and am having trouble locating a specialist vetinarian. Really dont want to risk it.
Can anyone tell me what has caused this? Is there anything I can do to help him? Should he be isolated in case the other frog catches it? Any advice would be very much appreciated. Many thanks in advance.

Dropsy is the only thing I can think of. Is this the site you looked at? Perhaps your frog's case of dropsy is not as far advanced as the ones in the pictures.
ADF Dropsy

Thanks... I did look at that site, thats the one which kinda scared me with the puncturing idea... the pic i saw which was more like my frog was at http://clawedfrogs.tripod.com/acf/id31.html
Nevertheless I will isolate him and try the salt and water changes.... can only hope
I read that drposy is highly contagious, does that mean Im likely to lose my other frog too? Does it affect the fish???
Thanks for your help

Hi !

I think you better isolate the little guy. Put him in a small tank or container of water only by himself. You might try the salt treatment mentioned earlier. If he's stopped eating, I'm afraid he's on his way out. Better check pH and other water conditions closely in the group tank. Do partial changes on the isolated frog every day.

...Mac

This is likely to be an intestinal impaction due to swallowing sand. Sorry to say but this is likely to be fatal. Any hard substrates (sand, gravel) used for amphibians should always have a grain size too large to be accidentally ingested.
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Mike.
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http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/Amphibiary

So if this is the case, is there nothing I can do to help him?

Incidentally, since isolating him in another small tank with shallow water (with the salt added) and a little of the weed he used to like to hide in, he has been swimming about and been really active. He's behaving like a totally different frog, very odd.

Thanks for your help.

"So if this is the case, is there nothing I can do to help him?
Incidentally, since isolating him in another small tank with shallow water (with the salt added) and a little of the weed he used to like to hide in, he has been swimming about and been really active. He's behaving like a totally different frog, very odd. "

There are several things you can do to help him:
- Get the salt out of the water. These frogs come from soft, acid waters, not coral reefs.
- Don't stick any needles in him.
- If he survives. change the substrate for one too large for him to swallow.
If it is intestinal impaction, either it will clear itself or the frog wil die. If yours is starting to look better, maybe the blockage has/is clearing. Offer SMALL amounts of food and see if he takes any.
Duh, one more thing. You are sure this is a "him", not a female full of eggs?
Good luck!
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Mike.
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http://mike-edwardes.members.beeb.net/Amphibiary

OK, so the salt's gone, my frog's back in normal water (taken from my larger tank which I know is just right!). Doesnt seem so active now, i guess s/he was just exploring new surroundings and has now got bored with the idea. S/he tends to just sit in the weed now, often near the surface, but not always. I guess its better than floating at the top of his old tank. However, I still havent seen any food going down yet...
I noticed this morning that my frog has developed two small whitish marks on its back where you would expect shoulder blades to be... A little further down, central back, is a mark right in the middle, and bit lower down again, in line with the first marks, where hind legs start, are two more little marks. They look a little like stretch marks?!?!? Any ideas what they are? Its not fungus on the surface, its within the skin.
As for the sex... to be honest Im not 100% sure. I have read articles which say the females have small tail-like things - s/he has one. I have also read articles that say males have a circular whitish spot under their forearms - S/he has one. Both frogs appear to be the same so I havent been able to make any real comparison. I havent caught the two frogs up to anything, but who knows what they get up to when my back is turned! If it is in fact an egg-laden female, for how long should I expect her to carry the eggs? Is there any way of tlling for sure whether this is the case?
Sorry for the 101 questions! Thank you very much for your help!

Female frogs do not get large chests when the are full of eggs, so I doubt that is it.

Well my little bloated frog hasnt got any better, in fact he seems to be ever expanding... He looks ready to go pop... he hasnt eaten a thing and now spends all his time sitting at the surface holding on the the stone in the tank.
If there really is nothing I can do to help him, and nothing my vet would be able to do/give to him, my only choice will be to take him back to the vet to end his suffering... My local vet knows next to nothing about frogs. Does anybody know what would be the quickest and most humane way?

Hi,

I was afraid he was going downhill, but I'm very sorry to hear the news. I'm very attached to my ADF's, especially my oldest.
Here's some advice that's difficult to give. First, keep him in shallow water, or at least with a rock that will keep him from struggling to stay on top. I would like to say that he could rebound with water changes, but it sounds like his internals are failing and/or blocked. If he doesn't respond to water changes or activity, you can probably put him down by rubbing some Neosporin on his head. Don't flood his eyes, you just need a little. Frogs absorb through skin osmosis. The Neosporin will act on his brain. If he is as sick as I think, he won't move away much.
I'm very sorry to hear that he didn't rebound.

...Mac

Thank you very much for your help. At the moment "Mr Toad" (as he has now been nicknamed since he developed such a huge rounded tummy)is in a small tank with shallow water, rock and weed. Whenever he is disturbed he will dive for cover, and is still able to stay afload without help for now. I will wait and see if there are any positive changes in the next few days/week and otherwise I'll have to arrange for the alternative approach .
Unfortunately the Neosporin you mentioned is only available on prescription in the UK, however, the very friendly nurse at the vet's said she would be able to get hold of some to do the deed should it become necessary as I fear it will . Once again, thank you very much to everyone for your advice, suggestions and support, all very much appreciated. For a first-time user of any kind of forum, Im very impressed and pleased I gave it a shot! Thanks to all I will let you all know what becomes of Mr Toad the African Dwarf Frog as and when things happen...

Karen x

If he darts away when you touch him, I wouldn't give up on him yet.
If you have to look at euthansia, you can also use Orajel. Its a white toothache medicine that will put him to sleep. Apply on the head as described earlier.
Best of luck : )

...Mac

Mr Toad, the african dwarf frog sadly went off to the great lily pond in he sky today.

I have no explanation as to how, but two days ago his bloatedness suddenly decreased and he almost resembled a normal frog again. I was so happy. He was swimming about throughout the tank, I still did not see him eat although the food disappeared. He seemed so much better that I decided to return him to his original home where he continued to swim about normally, like his old self.

Sadly, today I realised that he had been sitting on the same leaf for an extraordinary length of time (4 hours) and when I reached in the tank to check on him, he did not move and I realised that he had passed on.

Sorry for your loss

At least he went out in more of a normal environment, not bloated at the top of the other tank.

How is your other ADF doing ?

...Mac

My female ADF died in very much the same way except without the comeback. I am not having much luck i bought 3 baby frogs a while back and they all died in 3 days 1 for each day. the pet store had a recall thing i think but being me i did not save the bodys. (who would) poor froggies

Sorry to hear bout your frogs, it is very disheartening...
Will you try again with some more?

Sandy, my remaining frog seems to be doing fine in the community tank with all the neons, harlequins, guppies etc. In fact, since the additon of the harlequins, he has perked up even more and is often to be seen swimming about in the front open space of the tank and all around the various plants and open spaces....
I am considering getting another frog to replace Mr Toad, but since Sandy seems so much happier Im not sure I will......
We shall see........!

Karen.

I may get another frog and either add iit to my newt's tank or my now under stocked comunnity fish tank (a few guppies a pleco and an algae eater 1 tetra) i don't know.. i was also thinking of firebellied toads of a snake but snake is hard as my mom is terrified of them, i have a brown snake right now though cute little bugger

1 more thing i had my original 2 frogs breed but the 2 eggs that hatched the tads died after bout 2 weeks (which is more than most people can keep them alive for i hear)

I suggest another frog as they look better with a friend

Those firebelly toads look cute... Not sure about snakes myself.. dont fancy having to feed them rodents etc... uggh!!! my two hamsters would not be impressed!!!!!
My three adf's were my first attempt at keeping anything other than fish.. the first disappeared and was later found half-eaten by fish The second you know about, the third is happy.. for now!!!
My latest addition to my larger tank is a red claw crab... dont actually see much of it though as its taken up residence in the top of a hollow fake mangrove root where it can easily nip in and out of the water inside at its leisure! have not seen it outside the hollow since we got it last week!!! but, who knows what they get up to in the middle of the night whilst we are sound asleep......!

Well i don't really want to food my snake rodents either, that's why they have snake sausages to feed them but for now the little brown snake i have eats bugs worms and slugs with a side order of snails... and bout the crap you don't need to see a pet to enjoy it if you ask me you just have to know that it is happy and you CAN keep it... My newt that i have has outlived like 5 firebelly newts 6 adfs and a few fish and 1 tadpole......i don't have much luck unless it is life threatening to me hehe ya oh and i'm 16 so i have a limited budget as i have no job (just yet)
Dave

Sorry i wrote crap when i meant crab i wrote this just before i went to sleep so i'm not with it haha sorry
Dave

I was wondering....! Im sure Charlotte the CraB is quite happy!