Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I notice a couple weeks back that my 9 foot female black head still had a lump 2 weeks after feeding. The lump is in the lower third and looks like she still has a rat in her. Last time I fed I fed two large rats and a 3 week quail and I was just worried that maybe there was a problem.

Well my vet was nice enough to send me the X-Rays so I could look for my self but I am not really sure if I see a blockage..

Jason

Well "radio graphs" are what the vet termed them.

Jason

I'm no medical expert and havent seen lots and lots of radiographs, but it just looks like a huge turd to me. I would assume the vet already ruled out constipation? Have you tried a warm soak yet?
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Tom

"The more people I meet, the more I like my snakes"

>>Well "radio graphs" are what the vet termed them.
>>
>>Jason
>>

I see eggs darlin, Save the drive...
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Cindy
PHFaust

Email Cindy

Land of the Outcasts!

Your snake is having follicle growth. Looks like she'll lay a lot for you.

Good luck.

D.

Yep those looks like ovum to me. No way to tell if they are fertile yet. Have you bred her? Its probably not the best idea to do rads on gravid snakes early in the pregnancy. You could end up with birth defects. I'm not sure if it effects unfertilized ovum.

Well I discussed the topic of threat vs. benefits with my vet. My vet is a friend and herping partner first and a vet second with me, so it was not a sales pitch. Going in my possibillities were either a blockage in the lower digestive track or a really weird looking ovulation. For a 9 foot 16 pound snake to have a 8 inch long minor but distinct swelling in the lower third to me does not equate to ovulation. I picture a much larger area being swollen, the pics some have posted on here have not helped this.

That is the reason for posting this. My vet is my bud and I am only getting a small charge compared to what most would get from him but maybe by posting this I might save someone else from a $200 vet visit. As Derrek has told me, "these snakes are just different man" so if some other lucky first timer sees this small lump in the big snake they will know. It rally looks like a freshly eaten large rat that is just lower in her body, not at all what I expected from all the pics of snakes ready to explode that I see on here.

The vet did say 95% chance that they are ova.

Jason

That looks a lot longer than 8" of "stuff" there.
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1.0 Blackheaded pythons
2.4 Woma
3.2 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.3 Bloods
2.2 IJ Carpets
2.0 Coastal Carpets
1.3 Macklotts
1.2 F2 Carpondros
2.1 Jungle Carpet
1.0 Jag IJCP
0.1 Carpondro
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow boas
1.1 Striped Bolivian Boas
0.1 Madagascar Tree Boa
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

Well yes you are right, that is a 20-24 inch slide (not sure, I would have to ask) but it is also a picture of that slide that cuts a little off each end from my memory. If we call it 24inches before the pic and go with an excessive guess of 4 inches lost to the picture we got 20 inches of ova there... on the inside. On the outside she has a little more swelling up and down from the center of the mass today but it still is not big. I would say it still looks like a XXXL rat in her that is on the south side of her stomach instead of the north side. Still not what I would expect.

My fear was that she ate some large pieces of mulch and it had caused a blockage in her. I was afraid that what I was seeing is the leftovers of the last 3 food items backing up in her. If that was what I was told had happened I would totally "get it" from what I am seeing. She still does not look gravid to me but from the change I can see since Saturday when I had her at the vet I am guessing I will get my reward of giant swollen female soon!!! I hope she goes that route and I did not miss it on my vacation. I want to experiance all the stages of this, all the fun and hopefully very little of the pain. I have had more than one breeder tell me "Eggs are easy, hatchlings are the hard part, then you get to get them to feed..."

I hope, hope, hope!! Someone just called and asked what I think I will get in hatchlings and my honest answer was 0... anything better and I will be thrilled!!

Jason

>>Well my vet was nice enough to send me the X-Rays so I could look for my self but I am not really sure if I see a blockage..
>>
>>Jason

What did steve say?
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Cindy
PHFaust

Email Cindy

Land of the Outcasts!

I doubt that it's fecal...looks either like follicles or eggs. Maybe Kelly can help.

I'm not a vet, nor do I play one on TV.
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1.0 Blackheaded pythons
2.4 Woma
3.2 Aussie Olives
1.1 Timors
1.3 Bloods
2.2 IJ Carpets
2.0 Coastal Carpets
1.3 Macklotts
1.2 F2 Carpondros
2.1 Jungle Carpet
1.0 Jag IJCP
0.1 Carpondro
1.1 Brazilian Rainbow boas
1.1 Striped Bolivian Boas
0.1 Madagascar Tree Boa
0.1 child, CB
0.1 wife, WC

>>I doubt that it's fecal...looks either like follicles or eggs. Maybe Kelly can help.
>>
>> I'm not a vet, nor do I play one on TV.
>>-----
LOL not a vet either, but def looks eggs to me.
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Cindy
PHFaust

Email Cindy

Land of the Outcasts!

It appears like it could be eggs, but I have a few questions. When was this female last in contact with a male? Also, this looks like a tremendously large clutch for a blackhead, and according to the original post, this female was feeding just a couple of weeks before the radiographs were taken. If these are eggs, I would think that it would be very unusual that a female blackhead with a clutch of this size would still be feeding. Another question would be if she was ever seen in the inverted position that is typical of gravid female pythons, especially blackheads. That would cinch it. Another possibility that would explain a lot would be that these are unfertilized ova, and not shelled eggs.

Kelly

Yes, BHPs can have clutches up to and over 20. Not that uncommon to get over 15.
Also, some females will feed during the entire gravid process.
Almost all of my BHP females...will continue eating actually.

I agree that you're looking at unfertilized ova in that shot...but she is still swelling right Jason?

She'll start inverting after her Ovulation...if she's going to go.

Cheers,
D.

I was not aware that multi-generational captive bred blackheads produced clutches of that size with that frequency, but it does make sense that they would. I don't have much captive data, as most of mine comes from numerous field studies over the years, mainly from studies conducted by Shine and Charles. It was extremely rare for even a large wild female to lay a clutch of 15 or more. Wild caught females also fed well until ovulation and then quit feeding. This is not totally surprising either, as CB females of a few select species will continue to feed well into egg maturation probably due to conditioning to F/T prey.

The ova mass in this case appeared to me to be posterior of the ovaries and would seem to be post-ovulation. This is why I would have expected her to be showing inversions by this point. Definitely agree in that I don't believe I have ever seen an inversion in a python that was pre-ovulation. Thanks again for your information,

Kelly

Hey there Kelly....
Yeah, BHP's are a different kind of animal.... for sure. Haha.

I believe the largest clutches I know of was 24...I think that one was with Jim Sargent and the other.. was a friend up in NY state. Paul Harris had a clutch of 21 this year.
It's few and far between but, can happen. I guess it really depends on the size of the females.

Follicle growth in BHPs can be mistaken for Ovulation a lot... Because of the massive growth size they go through during that time period.
I remember my first year with them...I about had a heart attack when I saw the actual ovulation! Haha. Much different than what I was used to.... with the Carpets, Bloods, burms, etc....

Sure are neat animals.
Love em'.

Cheers,
D.

Thanks for the info Derek, you have certainly helped me out with this whole breeding process/hopeful breeding process.

Kelly she was last with a male and breeding the night before this and the swelling is very low in the overall body. She has just gone into a shed cycle and the male had not interest in her after the last intraduction 2 days ago. In the week before this radio graph she had tons of attention from the male and I almost skipped the vet visit all together but I would rather be safe than sorry.

She has now gone into a shed cycle and swollen a bit more. She is also using her heated area constantly and I am thinking of adding a heat pad at night to allow her heat 24/7.

Jason