Reptile & Amphibian Forums

These turned out ok . There is a guy here in Iowa that was nice enough to offer some of his pic taking skills so my animals show up in pics like they are supposed to. I have to get back to him , just been pretty busy trying to make some more stuff this year! Hope you like some of my pics, if was 70F here today so I had to do something outdoors!

Looks like I'm only getting 3 to post at a time so I'll do a couple sets.

Here's a Ivory , Super Mojave, and a clean Pastel , all girls.

Anthony McCain

Weird dark female Pied I made.

Nice Caramel Albino female

Nice Spider (waiting on the Potions to get up to size for her)

Nice pair of Genetic Stripes I hatched and held back.

Nice Pastel Ghost male.

Super Crystal (couldn't get him to hold still for long)

Here's the last couple pics, one is a Super Stripe (Yes she's one from MY line) the other is a Pastel with I believe two different genes at work one is the Whirlwind/Specter gene (gene in a Super Stripe) the other is a gene I am trying to isolate as we speak, I recently figured some stuff out with this "other gene" when I compared notes from how some of my stuff is related , now I am in the process of narrowing it down to see if I can get that gene all by itself! It is not a Pastel Fire either. Anyway hope you liked the pics at least some, LOL!

Anthony McCain
McCain's Reptiles

Forgot to add my male Pastel Mystic, he's subtle but he'll do some wicked stuff down the road!

Hope you all hit the odds your striving for this year!

Anthony McCain

All of them are really nice...great pics too!
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Matt Lerer
Ghi Reptiles

Love the SS(CLEAN) and the Pastel Combo??? Anthony!!! Since you are working with the Special gene, I must ask if you have discovered that the Super Crystal is, in fact, a double homozygous animal? It's name would indicate such. Super nice pics by the way!!!! Love a good OUTDOOR shot in natural light!!!!
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Bill Buchman

Thanks for the nice comments! The pics were decent so figured I'd share , obviously the grass is dead here in March , can't do much about that , lol.

Bill the Super is breeding but haven't got babies from him yet (to early still for that coming from him) . His pic is far from what I was trying to capture but he didn't like it out there today so it's the best I could do for now. As for the genetics I really don't think there is any Mojave in him, if the 2 genes involved in a regular Crystal Mojave are on the same allele then it wouldn't be possible to make a Super Crystal (in other words Super "Special" meaning the homozygeous version of the Special Mom ) that has any mojave in it, same as it wouldn't be possible to make a Ivory Super Stripe if that project also is an allele situation with it's 2 genes (Yb and Whirlwind/Specter). I will say that this male is from Tom Bakers clutch where he bred a Pastel Crystal Mojave to the founding female he calls "Special" so that would rule out the "Super Mojave" possibility since the Special mom is not anything like a Mojave at all , at best only one copy of Mojave would be possible and that would only be the case if it ends up more like a crossover situation and isn't a allele situation in the end. So far I have been real easy on him thus far with the ladies and he seems to favor one of my bigger Mojaves . If I were to make a Super Mojave breeding him to a Mojave then it would mean the Super does have Mojave in him and I guess then at that point the Super Mojave would also automatically carry the Crystal gene since the Super Crystal already must have 2 copies of "Special" so to speak just based on how it looks as it's very different from most white snakes. I doubt that will be the case and really only expect a half clutch of Crystal Mojaves (or so) and a half clutch of regular "Specials" breeding him with a Mojave if I'm right on what he is anyway.. I think now that he's getting a little size to him I'll also put him on one female that is not a Lesser complex member just to see the breakdown in his babies that way as well. Fun stuff either way! I am very pleased with that Super Crystal and have to thank both Tom Baker and Jon Levey for allowing me to take on such a incredible specimen!

Anthony McCain

Oh they are all gorgeous I especially love that Albino caramel
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That pastel specter is unreal. Are you going for the pastel superstripe?
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Spencer

Yes the Pastel Whirlwind or Pastel Specter is pretty wicked. For the record the Specter name was later used by the founder of the original SS project which incidentally the original female Specter is clearly different looking than my original founding female Whirlwind. I've also been told the 2 lines have totally diffferent looking belly markings too so it isn't 100% known if they are the exact same things, but may in the end be slightly different morphs that are just on the same alleles, it all depends on how variable the Mystery gene is . If they are highly variable then they are the same , if not they are different morphs that produce similiar results bred to the YB gene, only time will tell. Also it will be interesting to compare the results when the Whirlwinds and Specters are crossed into other non Yb related morphs, if they make different looking crosses that too will speak volumes, if they make the same things then they are one in the same afterall, only by breeding will we know for sure as they have some differences for sure, much like a Cinny differs from a Black Pastel. I have yet to produce a Whirlwind with much of any markings on the center of the belly, Jareds line from what I've been told often times have alot of belly markings in there centers, that seems very odd to me.

This Pastel once proven to carry the Mystery gene should go nice with female Pastel Ivories and female Pastel Yb's for sure. Super Pastel Super Stripes should be pretty mind blowing.

Anthony McCain

has BHB been producing super stripes for a while and if so, how did he make his? in other words are you and jared the only game in town or is BHB also heavy into super stripes with his own line?

thanks,
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There are several that have made the Super Stripes. My point is that the ingredient genes don't all look the same , much like a cinny and a black pastel differ. That being said then I don't think calling them all Specters is the right thing to do.

Anthony McCain

any possibility that you would breed this so-called "Super Crystal" to a big old normal female? This would be the best scenario to understand exactly what genes are involved...

Good luck and keep us posted! Interesting stuff

Regards,
Bristen.

>>Thanks for the nice comments! The pics were decent so figured I'd share , obviously the grass is dead here in March , can't do much about that , lol.
>>
>>Bill the Super is breeding but haven't got babies from him yet (to early still for that coming from him) . His pic is far from what I was trying to capture but he didn't like it out there today so it's the best I could do for now. As for the genetics I really don't think there is any Mojave in him, if the 2 genes involved in a regular Crystal Mojave are on the same allele then it wouldn't be possible to make a Super Crystal (in other words Super "Special" meaning the homozygeous version of the Special Mom ) that has any mojave in it, same as it wouldn't be possible to make a Ivory Super Stripe if that project also is an allele situation with it's 2 genes (Yb and Whirlwind/Specter). I will say that this male is from Tom Bakers clutch where he bred a Pastel Crystal Mojave to the founding female he calls "Special" so that would rule out the "Super Mojave" possibility since the Special mom is not anything like a Mojave at all , at best only one copy of Mojave would be possible and that would only be the case if it ends up more like a crossover situation and isn't a allele situation in the end. So far I have been real easy on him thus far with the ladies and he seems to favor one of my bigger Mojaves . If I were to make a Super Mojave breeding him to a Mojave then it would mean the Super does have Mojave in him and I guess then at that point the Super Mojave would also automatically carry the Crystal gene since the Super Crystal already must have 2 copies of "Special" so to speak just based on how it looks as it's very different from most white snakes. I doubt that will be the case and really only expect a half clutch of Crystal Mojaves (or so) and a half clutch of regular "Specials" breeding him with a Mojave if I'm right on what he is anyway.. I think now that he's getting a little size to him I'll also put him on one female that is not a Lesser complex member just to see the breakdown in his babies that way as well. Fun stuff either way! I am very pleased with that Super Crystal and have to thank both Tom Baker and Jon Levey for allowing me to take on such a incredible specimen!
>>
>>Anthony McCain
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___________________________
www.RoyalGemReptiles.com

Really no need to breed him to a normal,any non Lesser complex morph should also give you a breakdown of the gene(s) involved, if anything comes out with Mojave appearance then you'd have your answer. I just doubt that will be the case , only way you'd get any Mojave in his babies would be if the Crystal gene is not an Allele of the lesser complex which I doubt is the case. I say this as Crystal Mojaves have been bred out already and from what I understand over 35 eggs have been hatched out with NO Crystal Mojaves being produced (the females were NON Lesser complex animals or normals) that tells us that it likely IS an allele situation and that the ONLY way to make more Crystal Mojaves/Lessers etc is by breeding the Crystal gene or Crystal combo morph BACK to another parent that is or carries in the form of a combo the Mojave , Lesser, Phantom/Mystic, actually in theory ANY of the genes in the Lesser complex in other words should line up with the Crystal gene. Based on the breedings in 08 I think it's most likely that this Super Crystal is the pure Super form of the Crystal side without any Mojave in it. Another less likely possibility is that the Crystal Mojave is a crossover situation and in that case if I'm not mistaken it is possible that the Super Crystal in a crossover situation could then also have one copy of Mojave in it (mom isn't a Mojave but is the "Special" or Crystal gene so this Super Crystal could at best only have 1 copy of Mojave) as in the crossover situation they aren't true alleles of each other but VERY close Alleles that crossover into each others chromosomes during cellular division or basically something like that anyway. From what I understand if a crossover happens it's real hard to unlock the genes simultaneously so they combine together again and make in this case another Crystal Mojave. It in fact can be done since they aren't true alleles in the case of crossing over but it's not easy and you mainly produce offspring with one or the other gene (Crystal/aka Special or Mojave in the case of a Crystal Mojave) and rarely would it hit on a Crystal Mojave when bred to a normal or non lesser complex parent. If a Crystal Mojave is EVER made by breeding a Crystal Mojave to a virgin non Lesser complex morph then it would prove a crossover is what we are dealing with and that they aren't true alleles of each other , SO FAR however no evidence has supported this idea .

Another way to look at this is if the Special gene or better called the Crystal gene (for easy naming down the road of the future combos, afterall the Special gene is a morph all on its own, so Crystal is the best name for the base morph too) and the Mojave or other Lesser complex genes were seperate Alleles from the Crystal gene one would expect a Crystal Mojave to reproduce itself just like a Lemon Blast, Bumblebee, or Pewter does , 1 in every 4 offspring in theory would carry both genes even bred to a normal and visually it would then be a combo morph , so far this has not happened with breeding Crystal Mojaves to normals or non lesser complex morphs. I keep saying "non lesser complex morphs" as that is the ONLY surefire way to make Crystal Mojaves/Crystal Lessers because anytime the other Lesser complex parent throws a copy of it's morph or in other words does not throw a copy of normal then you would either make a Super Mojave (or regular Blue Eyed Leucistic depending on what your breeding with such as a Lesser/Mojave BEL produced from a Crystal Mojave x Lesser breeding) or if the Crystal gene lines up instead with that Mojave , Lesser, Mystic, or whichever one your using you can make a Crystal Mojave, Crystal Lesser, Crystal Mystic and so on this way depending on which Lesser complex morph you bred the Crystal morph into.

I think this year will prove all this out enough that it will make perfect sence to those that are following the project. By this fall I should know what I have as far as this Super Crystal goes , if I don't do it here someone else in the project will shed enough evidence on the matter so we know more of how it breeds out.

Anthony McCain
McCain Reptiles

phew! that was quite a chapter to read! very interesting stuff... looks like it makes sense to me so far... hopefully, like you said, there will be clear answers for this project in 2009!

Keep us posted and share pictures of this year's results please!

Regards,
Bristen.

>>Really no need to breed him to a normal,any non Lesser complex morph should also give you a breakdown of the gene(s) involved, if anything comes out with Mojave appearance then you'd have your answer. I just doubt that will be the case , only way you'd get any Mojave in his babies would be if the Crystal gene is not an Allele of the lesser complex which I doubt is the case. I say this as Crystal Mojaves have been bred out already and from what I understand over 35 eggs have been hatched out with NO Crystal Mojaves being produced (the females were NON Lesser complex animals or normals) that tells us that it likely IS an allele situation and that the ONLY way to make more Crystal Mojaves/Lessers etc is by breeding the Crystal gene or Crystal combo morph BACK to another parent that is or carries in the form of a combo the Mojave , Lesser, Phantom/Mystic, actually in theory ANY of the genes in the Lesser complex in other words should line up with the Crystal gene. Based on the breedings in 08 I think it's most likely that this Super Crystal is the pure Super form of the Crystal side without any Mojave in it. Another less likely possibility is that the Crystal Mojave is a crossover situation and in that case if I'm not mistaken it is possible that the Super Crystal in a crossover situation could then also have one copy of Mojave in it (mom isn't a Mojave but is the "Special" or Crystal gene so this Super Crystal could at best only have 1 copy of Mojave) as in the crossover situation they aren't true alleles of each other but VERY close Alleles that crossover into each others chromosomes during cellular division or basically something like that anyway. From what I understand if a crossover happens it's real hard to unlock the genes simultaneously so they combine together again and make in this case another Crystal Mojave. It in fact can be done since they aren't true alleles in the case of crossing over but it's not easy and you mainly produce offspring with one or the other gene (Crystal/aka Special or Mojave in the case of a Crystal Mojave) and rarely would it hit on a Crystal Mojave when bred to a normal or non lesser complex parent. If a Crystal Mojave is EVER made by breeding a Crystal Mojave to a virgin non Lesser complex morph then it would prove a crossover is what we are dealing with and that they aren't true alleles of each other , SO FAR however no evidence has supported this idea .
>>
>>Another way to look at this is if the Special gene or better called the Crystal gene (for easy naming down the road of the future combos, afterall the Special gene is a morph all on its own, so Crystal is the best name for the base morph too) and the Mojave or other Lesser complex genes were seperate Alleles from the Crystal gene one would expect a Crystal Mojave to reproduce itself just like a Lemon Blast, Bumblebee, or Pewter does , 1 in every 4 offspring in theory would carry both genes even bred to a normal and visually it would then be a combo morph , so far this has not happened with breeding Crystal Mojaves to normals or non lesser complex morphs. I keep saying "non lesser complex morphs" as that is the ONLY surefire way to make Crystal Mojaves/Crystal Lessers because anytime the other Lesser complex parent throws a copy of it's morph or in other words does not throw a copy of normal then you would either make a Super Mojave (or regular Blue Eyed Leucistic depending on what your breeding with such as a Lesser/Mojave BEL produced from a Crystal Mojave x Lesser breeding) or if the Crystal gene lines up instead with that Mojave , Lesser, Mystic, or whichever one your using you can make a Crystal Mojave, Crystal Lesser, Crystal Mystic and so on this way depending on which Lesser complex morph you bred the Crystal morph into.
>>
>>I think this year will prove all this out enough that it will make perfect sence to those that are following the project. By this fall I should know what I have as far as this Super Crystal goes , if I don't do it here someone else in the project will shed enough evidence on the matter so we know more of how it breeds out.
>>
>>Anthony McCain
>>McCain Reptiles
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___________________________
www.RoyalGemReptiles.com

Will do Bristen! I'm not pushing the Super Crystal that hard this time around he is an 08 afterall. I'm simply just giving him the idea on a few girls now that way he'll be experienced for my upcoming females when I really need him to "lock and load" so to speak! If I get babies from him in 09 I will share my results , no worries there.

Anthony McCain
McCain Reptiles