Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I have this L.p.___? and need a mountain king expert. I purchased it from someone that purchased it from a Vegas pet shop and was told simply that it is a Sonoran mountain king. Is this L.p.knoblochi, L.p.woodini, or L.p.pyromelana and if its L.p.p. is it possible to determine locality based on appearance? If you can identify this snake, please explain. (sorry the background color might make you ill)

snake adventures

Bad shot of the belly

snake adventures

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snake adventures

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snake adventures

knob
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Todd Hughes

It's a Knoblochi for sure.. You will not be able to ID it's exact local without knowing line history from the breeder.

Nice snake either way though, good luck!

~ Mike Russo

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Diego

SWCHR

I agree with the other posters that it is most likely a knoblochi, but I don't think you can rule out a l.p.p/l.p.k. cross, especially if it's a pet store animal. Some l.p.p. can look an awful lot like knobs and vice versa. It really helps to know and trust the breeder.

Greg

cool

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Signature edited

Thanks for the id help. Because of this I have come to know the difference between L.p.pyromelana and L.p.knoblochi. Does anyone have any good pics of L.p.woodini?
snake adventures

Woodini has been dropped as a valid subspecies. Here are some field pics of southern Arizona pyros. The Santa Rita animal has lateral striping similar to a knob.

Greg

Huachuca Mts. = woodini

Huachuca Mountains = woodini

Santa Rita Mountains

Santa Rita Mountains

Santa Catalina Mountains

Santa Catalina Mountains

Wow. Great series of photos. Some of those do look like knobs!

Those are some of the coolest pyros I have ever seen.
snake adventures

East side of Huachucas male:

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Diego

SWCHR

Nice one Diego, and a good example of why woodini was sunk as a valid subspecies. Not all of the pyros in the Huachucas key out as woodini (less than 40 white bands) while other pyros from far away might meet the standard. I agree with the dropping of woodini and infralabialis as valid subs.

Greg

...I also agree with the sinking of "woodini", but was there a scale count difference with them as there is in infralabialis?
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Diego

SWCHR

I don't believe there is a scale count difference between woodini and pyro pyro. I think the reason they were separated from pyro pyro was due to wider than average white rings and less than average white rings (less than 42). As you know, not all Huachuca pyros fit that description.

I believe infralabialis was also dropped due to the fact that many animals in their range didn't fit the definition while other animals well outside the range did fit the definition. Many pyros from the Black Range in New Mexico could keyed out as infralabialis. It would seem that the lower labial scale counts are more common in the far northern and eastern extremes of the range of pyro pyro.

...thanks!

I wasn't aware that they'd dropped the Utah Mtn. King. Certainly our G&F dept hasn't:

www.reptilesofaz.com/Snakes-Subpages/h-l-pyromelana.html
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Diego

SWCHR

About 30 white rings to cloaca



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"Wake me when its April"

Doug L

Here is some pics

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"Wake me when its April"

Doug L

In this day and age, who knows what that IS. But if its wild caught or a direct desendant, then I may be from central southern Ariz or northern mex. Something like Sierra De Ajos.

There is a percentage of Knob, like pyros from these areas. Cheers

Whatcha' been up to Frank?
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Todd Hughes

Same old, just got out of time out, I was a bad boy I guess.

Doing lots of field work, getting some good data. Been posting some pics on varanus.net. Cheers