Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I bought a baby trio of Western Desert monitors from a dealer about two years ago. After about a week one of the monitors started to bloat and soon died. a few day later another one suddenly did the same thing and also died.

They were fed crickets and mice; they also were watered which is what supposedly killed them. I have contacted others that raised griseus since babies and they said that water will not hurt, much less kill them. They thermo-regulated great and seemed to be healthy until this.

I thought it might be a calcium deficiency, lack of gene pool or maybe exposure to something in transit.

What are your thoughts on this?

Please excuse the bad picture quality...

Oh also forgot to add that the tail and back two legs went limp and the monitor just dragged them behind itself...

Luc Cauthorn

dude that scared the piss out of me!! i read the subject and it thought it may be the once u have now! what a relief! yeah that deff looks like impaction:/ man they were really pretty!!

jake
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1.1 v. griseus

hahaha sorry about that...If that happened I'd e-mail you first.

You think it was an impaction. They were on sand and water was readily available. The legs went limp and so did the tail. I'm not saying it was not an impaction, just keeping my eyes open.

Thanks!
Luc

yeah i know! i was like crap and we were just talking about how bad it would suck if somthing happened! good thing it was a false alarm!
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1.1 v. griseus

Above another griseus keeper mentioned about cutting them open to find out. If they were both impacted it would most certainly be a result from internal dehydration(much easier to happen in young reptiles). Impactions dont happen so easily, not both together.
Aside from this, if both died at the same time it could only be an external cause such as poison.

No they didn't both die at the same time, two days apart I think. Unfortunatly I think I threw them out; I'll look in my freezer.

Why would they bloat from dehydration?

Luc

Sounds like impaction brought on by internal dehydration. You read about this happening with lizards regularly, and Ive seen it in other peoples collections in person.

If there was water present in the cage it wasnt from dehydration.

What could the impaction be from? They were on sand. made sure they had water and were able to drink when I received them...

The sine looked disconnected at the legs and below...

Luc

luc how much and how often did you feed? in the wild griseus hibernate for the first year of there life, so in captivity they need small meals often at a young age. I fed mine 2-3 small hopper mice (or the like in other food) daily, and gave water and had them on sand.

don't worry to much about the loss! most people would have given up, but you stuck in there and now you have 3 awesome desert monitors to say the least! did you happen to cut the babies open to take a look?

I didn't get an email did you send it?

dehydration is not a problem with desert monitors! they get all there water from food and humidity! I have seen mine drink 3 times in 4 years!

peace bro
Jake
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1.1 v. griseus

No dude I didn't even feed them that much. They were sort of in active from day one. They were not really interested in crickets and they ate a few mice. From this picture you can see that I was not over feeding them...at least to my knowledge. I know this is coming from me! lol I feed my adults a lot at a time but they can handle it.

this guy looks healthy, if not a little skinny.

Water in the cage does not prevent dehydration. Monitors are not designed to loss water through the skin. They prevent this with behavior, they seek humid burrows and such when the AIR is DRY. Exposing them to dry air, causes dehydration and its effects.

Sir, even water turtles in fish tanks of water can suffer the dehydrating effects of dry air. Turtle folks know this. With them its recomended to cover the tank during periods of dry air(air conditioning, winter, etc)

I hope you try to understand this. Good luck

I am pretty sure that it was not from dehydration...if anything it would be from over watering (having a water bowl with the monitors).

These monitors literally do not need to drink, except maybe as babies. I water my adults one every three months, most of the time they do not even drink out of the bowl. As Jock stated they get all there water from the prey they consume. The feces of the desert monitor is completely dry within one day; practically no moisture is wasted in the digestive process.

They are definitely a different monitor. When I bought my baby trio I was never informed not to water; so naturally I watered them, this is what I was told led to their demise.

I have heard people say Kenyan sand boas require no water, along with other desert dwellers. Could this indeed kill them?

Thanks for all your inputs!

Luc Cauthorn

The point is that they may have dehydrated from the description, as stated by FR the water in the cage doesnt stop dehydration. If the animals cannot properly avaoid dehydration with whats available in their environment they dehydrate, period, it wouldnt matter if they are swimming and drinking daily.
To assume that because the species lives in one of the most dry places on earth, and rarely drinks water according to a few observations that they dont need it can survive without it can mislead keepers into creating an environment that kills their captive.
This species visits water when available and swims like many other species will, not only that, will take advantage of prey in the water if they are hungry.
Dont ever assume that a desert is completely void of water. The dew in the mornings in almost every desert is very very very heavy and the air becomes very moist, also everything in sight gets soaked.
My guess would be that the lizard dehydrated. The swelling seems to be an after effect of death, or a defence to remain hidden under an object.
Unless the lizard was drowned, the water didnt kill the lizard.

"My guess would be that the lizard dehydrated. The swelling seems to be an after effect of death, or a defence to remain hidden under an object.
Unless the lizard was drowned, the water didn't kill the lizard."

The lizard was still alive when I took the shots. I know what it is like when they inflate, this was not it. The legs and tail went completely limp. Is this a sign of impaction? When I felt the "bloat" it was not solid and hard, as if sand or something else was impacting the animal.

I have had my adults for 2 years now, since they were 18 months old, since then they have probably drank once.

I don't think I am misleading owners on their care...I don't want anyone to make the same mistake I did and "over-water" their babies, if that indeed is what killed them.

Thanks!
Luc Cauthorn

The problem is, you somehow think nature is your cage. ALso, your cage is others cages. So the advice you give is misleading. But then, its hard not to be.

In this day and age, one must understand that with decent captive care, all species of monitors will grow up and reproduce within a couple years. If that is not happening, then we(the keepers) are missing something. And yes, its common that we miss something.

You should consider, in nature, they utilize the most harsh enviornments they can succeed in. As in, nature at times push them into the most marginal conditions.

In captivity, we do not have to include the harsh trying conditions. We can treat them as if all years ARE GREAT SUPPORTIVE YEARS. Which is what desert reptiles live for in nature. They do not live for the dry horrible non supportive years, they exsist thru them to florish if the good years. (think desert amphibs)

Also desert monitors occur in a range of enviornments from sandy deserts to deserts much like we have here in tucson. I recently went to a talk on desert turtles. One species was a water turtle in Morroco. While talking about the turtles IN THE WATER, they showed several desert monitors. Hmmmmmmmmmm around water, in rocky hilly terrain.

One thing that is totally forgotten here is, varanids from all types of enviornments are STILL VARANIDS.

Also, what baffles me is, most people treat there desert monitors based on a paper from the most northern locals in Russia, the problem is, the ones in our country are african, which is very near the equator. Again, even african desert monitors occur in a number of different enviornments. Which one is yours FROM???????

The very truth is, if you allow extreme dehydration, it will cause the kidneys to fail. Once they fail, drinking water will cause sudden death. Althought the monitor was already on that path.

Desert reptiles are much like other non desert species, with the exception of BEHAVIOR. They have keen behaviors to seek areas and avoid dehydration at all costs. Also, they have developed stronger kidneys and are much harder to cause failure with. But they still fail. No species should be dehydrated.

Yes, desert species are slightly more tolarent to dry air, but only slightly.

This talk I attended also explained the difference between true desert species and species living in the desert. Including species whos range was entirely within the desert and still not considered a desert species.

The reason is adaption. If they do not have special phyiscal adaptions for living in the desert, they are not considered desert species.

Varanids are amazing in the lack of adaptions they utilize. Other then size, they are very similar. That is, there are no legless varanids, or two legged varanids, or plated varanids. There are slight body build differences. Thin, prasinus, to Savs or KD's being thick.

Even water monitors show little specialization towards water, other then behavior. Mertens being the most adapted. Etc etc etc.

If you would be so kind, explain the difference between desert monitors and say, V.flavirufus. Explain both physical and habitat differences. Then think about why captive care would be different. Please research desert monitors and from their ENTIRE range. Cheers and happy learning

...it does not mean that they were dehydrated. If they were indeed dehydrated then it surely was not from me, as upon arrival I put each monitor in the water bowl and watched them drink...That was the first day when I got them. Maybe they were already dehydrated upon arrival.

I have no idea what exact locale mine came from, I believe they are CB, but still I don't know the locale. The Person that sold them breeds and cares for a nice size collection of Griseus, he has told me he rarely waters his monitors. He does however water his babies monthly...

Someone recently PM me saying that they thought the problem was rotten food in the monitors. This could explain their lack of appetite and the bloating. But what about the back legs and tail going limp? Take another look at the picture...he definitely is not inflating himself as a defence mechanism.

They do inhabit an enormous range...

I have to go more later.
Luc Cauthorn

Look at the bloating and the indent right behind it.

it wasnt rotten food... i have a webcam in my cage, i would through f/t mice in the cage and leave, if the monitor was not hungery they wouldnt eat it, they would then cover the mice with sand (not entending), the mice would get dug up a few days later and they would eat it like candy! lol that was a week out of hibernation and there eating wasnt as good as it is now.

cheers
jake
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1.1 v. griseus

no no what I meant was they had food rotting inside of them...lol I should have explained better, sorry Jock.

Which could explain the bloating...

Luc Cauthorn

haha oh... hmm that could happen if the timps were to low.

jake
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1.1 v. griseus

That bloating could happen if the lizard was, calicum deficient, impacted by sand(in this case) dehydrated(which can cause the sand impaction) and more.

This is why Shvar brought up dehydration, as it could cause the impaction.

The point is, without a good necropsy done, no one will know. We can all sit around and babble until we are blue in the face. There are always a million "could be's. The actual cause will go unknown.

What you can benefit from is learning how to prevent this in the future, but without actually finding out the cause. By talking about it on here, folks are only trying to make themselves feel better and not really trying to find out the cause. The cause can only be discovered through disection.

We can all guess and give UNTRAINED opinions. I do imagine, one of us may guess the cause, but which one of us????? Cheers

My flaviargus would do things like this, the lizard buried excess mice and dug them up to eat a day later, it never causes them a problem, but they dont let them underground to rot or dry out which happens when the mouse is underground for too long (like freeze dried and nasty).

Please understand, I do not know, nor am I saying why yours died. You need to take them and have a necropsy by a trained vet to find out what happened. Asking here is like asking a blind person what he sees. Again in order to have some idea, you need to see the animals in question, and not a pic.

Again, my comment was about dehydration and water bowls.

Also, you are missing the point, It does not matter what the other person does, it only matters if your condtions are EXACTLY the same.

If xeric monitors are not dehydrated, they do not need to drink water. Take Australia, most of the country gets rains a few times a year, that means, the monitors there rarely if ever have drinking water. This includes such commonly kept species as acanthurus, gouldi, and gilleni, etc. Like I said, V.flavirufus, lives in VERY similar habitats. And in some of those areas, recieve little to no rain. Why would they be different??

lastly, its not a very strong learning tool to say, so and so does this and their animals are fine. Not when yours died? See what I mean? The meaningful part of any method or equation is the result. That yours died, means something in fact, it means everything. If you copied exactly, then yours would not have died. So something is amiss. Your first step is to have someone check THE DEAD animal, in question. The evidence is INSIDE, not outside. Cheers

ok so the monitors you (FR) have stated can and will use a large water bow and come from similar habitats, there for should a griseus be offered the same large water bowl? not only to drink but to soak? the question i ask is would they use it? i will try, i will offer a larger water bowl and turn the webcam on it and see if they use it. or would that prove anything??
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1.1 v. griseus

Did I ever mention a large water bowl or even a water bowl. What I mention is dehydration. If these or any monitors are dehydrated, they will then HAVE to drink water.

This is a point missed by many. Many here make up species rules, but ignore varanid rules. You are keeping varanids so you should FIRST follow general rules for varanids. Then adjust to a species or even better, adjust to the individual monitor.

Back to your post, you seem to be hung up on "a large water bowl" When this subject has nothing to do with a water bowl. It has to do with dehydration.

Most all xeric reptiles do not drink water, desert monitors are not unique or special in this way. Yet, most here fail with this species, but insist of treating it in a different way. Have you ever considered your different way is the problem?

In the past I have angered many folks by saying I keep all species alike, and I do. I do not allow any species to dehydrate, or underheat or overheat. The funny part is, if allowed, all the species work a general range of temps and humidities. That range is very very similar and only varies in a few degrees of both temps and humidity.

There is such a small difference, that if offerred a range, of each, they all can be kept in the same basic cage. Like I mentioned, the differences is more about extreme limits, not about livable conditions.

Of course different species perfer different substrate. And species like gresius and flavirufus, perfer desert soils. But do you understand what those are. Is that just SAND? They pick areas in sandy deserts that support their needs, they do "not" pick any old sandy spot and dig. They must find areas that support burrows and hold a midlevel of humidity. In our deserts that humidity must in the 50 to 60% range. Or they will not use them as regular shelters. They will use shelters with lower levels as overnight shelters. permanent shelters must maintain their hydration, OR THEY WILL PERISH.

Monitors of all species do not choose to have permanent shelters in wet or extremely humid conditions. IF it floods or rains, and wets these shelters, these monitors will choose to dry out.

The actual point is, if your cage is dehydrating your monitors, then water is a must. It this goes longterm, then even water will not stop your monitor from failing.

If you guys are going to copy nature, I think picking the right part of nature is important. And if it does not express success, then move on to something else that does.

I do wish you guys luck, but some basic skill would sure be better. Cheers

"If you guys are going to copy nature, I think picking the right part of nature is important. And if it does not express success, then move on to something else that does."

I'm not trying to copy nature...

You insist that dehydration is what killed them...yet you say that they probably do not drink? OK say my cage was extremely dry; could it be drier than an African desert at the driest time of the year? If it was drier, then my supplying water (possibly in an excess amount) would of-set this.

You actually keep saying that I am trying to copy nature when you are the one that was referencing nature. I don't have a specific rule for keeping these...where did you get that idea? I do believe that they are negative responsive to water...JUST MY OPINION!

Thanks for your input and help.

Luc Cauthorn

''Again, my comment was about dehydration and water bowls.'' FR

"If xeric monitors are not dehydrated, they do not need to drink water. Take Australia, most of the country gets rains a few times a year, that means, the monitors there rarely if ever have drinking water. This includes such commonly kept species as acanthurus, gouldi, and gilleni, etc. Like I said, V.flavirufus, lives in VERY similar habitats. And in some of those areas, recieve little to no rain. Why would they be different??" FR... i have seen and heard that these monitors should have a large water bowl that they can soak on ( correct me if I'm wrong). if they live in the same habitats as griseus, should you keep grieseus the same way? that is why i asked if they should have a large water bowl?

i under stand why you type so much info, someone that has studied monitors as much as you have is bound to be a target buy every one, and needs to back up all his info with experience! i am not challenging you in any way! but i am not learning anything by going back and forth with this conversation! very few people keep and know anything about this species. therefor all i have learned about them i have found out mostly by myself. but you sir have seen them in the wild, i have not. i am saying this in a none hostile way when i say, can we get to a point? do they need a large water bowl or not? all i can say is if they use it it would mean the humidity is to low, if they don't then the humidity is good or to high. i really tune into there needs and have never found that they need water under my keeping, whether they use it in the wild or not. though i will still offer them one, to see if something has changed.

again i am not attacking you or trying to be rude. i just want to get some were!
its like reading a text book, the info is all there, but you still need to look the answers up in the back of the book.lol

i appreciate your help and knowledge, and would like to learn more from you. i do not want this conversation to go down hill!

jake
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1.1 v. griseus

Of course I do not want this to go downhill. But there appears to be a roadblock. The roadblock is hydration. You seem to want that to be about water or water bowls. In most cases, and particularly in the case of desert monitors(all species), its about water conservation.

The majority of their behavioral patterns are about water conservation. Once a desert species gains water(thru food or otherwise) They do everything to not needlessly loose it. They do not expose themselves to needless drying conditions. As an example they only leave their burrows in the most advantagious conditions, mourning or evening, or even night, when necessary. If they have a constant source of food(moisture and energy) they will come out more. If not, they will go down and wait until conditions are right. This is the way of the desert.

I have desert monitors in captivity, I have kept some outside in the desert since 91. I have bred them since then, generation upon generation. Yet I must add moisture to the cages. Then consider, right outside the cages there are a number of species, including gilas that do not need added moisture.

I can tell you this, if they start to loose moisture, they will do down and stop all activity. I do not care what time or month or temp it is.

These behaviors are what makes these reptiles the jewels of the desert. Not whether they drink or not, but how they deal with extreme conditions.

So no, its not about water bowls, or about me. Its about how these(all desert reptiles) deal with lack of water and extreme dryness or heat for that matter.

They are not very different physically then a non desert species. They are different in their behavioral modes.

The point is, if your conditions do not support them they will dehydrate. If its only to a small degree, then a water bowl will accomodate their needs. If its severe, then drinking water will not help. This is the point Shvar and I have been trying to make.

If you go to our forum, you will see that i have posted pics and talked about some desert reptiles. None of those reptiles have drinking water. One has been in one place and has not moved since feb 6. I mention that because the folks who keep that type of reptile in captivity, could not duplicate that. Their snake would dehydrate in that time if not given water. And for the very same reasons most captive desert species dehydrate in captivity. In most cases Our(all keepers) cages DO NOT INCLUDE THE CONDITIONS THESE SPECIES REQUIRE. They have no way to conserve moisture. So we HAVE to water them. But we should include conditions that allow them to conserve.

So to get over this roadblock, what have you done to make sure your monitors can use their inherent abilities to conserve moisture and exsist as desert monitors?

Oh by the way, can you tell Luc to read the posts over. AS I never said his darn monitors died of dehydration, althought its possible. I said, if he was really interested, he HAS to have a necropsy done buy someone who knows what they are doing. Unfortunately, he too has some manner of roadblock. He cannot read or see clearly because he really cares. So hes stuck. I wish both of your well. Cheers

I'm finding this thread very interesting and educational!

Tell me if I'm understanding you correctly Frank....

These Monitors can get all the hydration they need via their diet & therefore if they have the proper living conditions that allows them to maintain that hydration, need little to no drinking water. If their living conditions do not allow them to maintain hydration, then all the drinking water in the world won't help.

The same concept applies to rainforest species; all the drinking water in the world won't keep them hydrated if their air is too dry.

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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mike Heinrich,
Mike@amazontreeboa.org
www.amazontreeboa.org

If their living conditions do not allow them to maintain hydration, then all the drinking water in the world won't help.

If their not drinking enough of it. That's another topic.

You should consider, in nature, they utilize the most harsh enviornments they can succeed in. As in, nature at times push them into the most marginal conditions. FR

In captivity, we do not have to include the harsh trying conditions. FR

In the past I have angered many folks by saying I keep all species alike, and I do. I do not allow any species to dehydrate, or underheat or overheat. FR

These are the key statements . Same things I've said many times . Same result ( angered many folks )

For the time I had Griseus I kept them just like I would a Savannah nothing special and they thrived . I hated to sell them. I know the guys that catch them and how and where. I get the info stright from the source. The natural history is interesting but the majortiy of the information doesn't matter in captivity. I think Retes detailed account was as accurate as can be possible over the Internet.

Ernie Eison
WESTWOOD ACRES REPTILE FARM INC.

Yes, you have it. Its also about degrees, slight dehydration will respond to drinking water. But they still should not be allowed to dehydrate to any degree.

Nice snakes. Cheers

awesome! im learning now! i have not seen my monitors drink in years! the 3-4 times i saw them drink was the first year i had them and all times it was my female. i have made many improvments sence then! therefor they do not drink water under my keeping conditions. so i must be doing something right. though i have no breeding yet(no eggs), so there are still and always will be improvments to be made. i do not have the luxury to keep my animals out side, wish i did. you said you have breed them for years? how many are you working with as of now?
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1.1 v. griseus

I am currently using just sand...I am thinking that they will be able to burrow if I add peat moss. I have a ton of the stuff and would like to use it.

FR I think I understand about the dehydration; but could it happen in less than a week with them drinking water?

Cheers and thanks for all your insight.

Luc Cauthorn

By the way monitors will eat rotting food, not completely rotten food (they know better), it does not effect them, monitors eat stinky, nasty, horrible things all the time if available.
Food will rot inside them and kill them if it stuck, why would the food be stuck (they always process or regurge food thats inside too long unless unable to do either).
What if its the food, would cause them to be unable to regurge it after days, or be unable to process it????
Lack of hydration.
Without the lizard being cut open to find out we wont know.

That probably is what happened it got impacted and then the food rotted that would explain the bloating...right?

Luc

Impaction from food or substrate, is caused by serious dehydration, otherwise it would pass through, or come back up. You see hysdrated lizards dont impact with substrate or food, or much of anything at all. These lizards can eat pieces of steel, rocks, etc it passes.

Ok thanks for your help...I'll do things differently IF I get eggs!

Luc

Lets try it this way. The idea is not to allow them to dehydrate in the first place, otherwise you need to bring them back, which can be dangerous to them also.
Over the years it amazes how much more and more FRs advice sticks and makes more and mores sense, maybe thats because many years I can apply or compare it to the reptiles I keep.
My Aussie species are and were desert species (or desert adapted), I stopped putting a water dish in with ackies a long time ago, all it did was waste space and get dirty. The last time I saw one of them (the last of my ackies) drink (before both went on to new homes while reducing my collection) was the female when she decided not to eat for a long time, before that I dont remember either one drinking.
My flaviargus on the other hand enjoys water on occasion, but only one quick drink a week it seems, then he dumps the water after a day or so.
You need to find out what happened before you try to warn others so it doesnt happen to theirs, otherwise you are telling them to avoid something that may not be remotely close to causing the problem. The swelling seems as it could be impaction, but it could be a few other things. Consider that if impacted, or seriously swollen kidneys, or whatever it could be, the cause would be dehydration which led the animal to that condition, this doesnt happen within a short time, it takes time and gets worse. You can learn the stages of dehydration from mild to bad, or learn the hard way what the result is. Now go back and remember along the way anything unusual that other monitors dont do that would lead you to think the behavior or condition could be dehydration.
I hope Jody P in Florida is still working with Griseus, he was keeping his for the last few or more years like any other species, and never saw his go down, they ate consistent, they did all things normal monitors do in captivity
Good luck and I hope others and yourself can avoid this problem, but hopefully we can all find out what it actually was.

With any other species I would agree but If you heep the humidity above 75% with these guys they crash. They are unlike any other monitor out there. But im not going to argue the point.

yeah i keep mine in the basement and if it rains they will not eat and stay hidden tell the rain passes! but it does have to rain for a while. (3 days or so)

i highly doubt it is from dehydration, the odds of griseus dehydrating in two weeks is very unlikely!

and if given to much water they will do away with it though there scat, it will be runny. that was found out by feeding wet f/t mice one week and dry f/t mice the next, and repeating. they will also go off feed if they have to much water in there system. i believe thats why they dont eat if humidity is to high. not eating helps in keeping out water.
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1.1 v. griseus

It's amazing how they process every last drop of moisture...none is wasted! Like I said their feces is dry within a day!

They are a hardy species, but could water kill them? I just cannot see that happening.

Luc

Are you looking for a specific answer, one that is along the lines of your thoughts on why they died? I don't mean to be rude, sarcastic, or anything like that, just trying to help you to keep an open mind and consider the things that have been mentioned as possible causes.

Did you ever actually see one of the monitors that died defecate within a few days before they died?

The bloated abdominal area, combined with loss of mobility in the hind legs & tail, is typical of impacted lizards. SHvar mentioned this early in this thread. Dehydration can cause impaction because the animal's body pulls all the moisture out of the stomach's content and distributes it to other parts of the body where it's needed. The stomach's contents then begin to dry out & can sometimes harden, making it hard to pass and causing blockage.

Even though they were kept on sand, sand can still cause impaction under the right (or wrong) conditions. You also said that they were inactive from the day you got 'em. Odds are that whatever killed 'em was in place & taking effect before you got 'em. If they were dehydrated and became impacted before you got 'em it would take an experienced keeper to recognize the signs & turn things around in time.

Just try to clear your mind of any/all answers that you're looking to match to your own conclusions, suspicions. Heck, even this 'ol hillbilly wouldn't argue with Frank about dehydration & water/moisture needs of desert monitors because he's kept desert species in the deset for many years. And quite effectively, too. And to see him & Ernie in total agreement on something should be eye-opening.

Hang in there!
HH
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Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

One more thing; Someone else mentioned undigested food causing the bloating & possibly even the deaths. If there was food in their belly and they didn't have sufficient temperatures to process that food, bloat & death is very possible.

Later!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

OK. It sounds like dehydration could indeed kill them...I didn't know if they would bloat and go partially limp.

Thanks for your help!

Why would you keep any monitor at 70% and above. This is an approach that I totally fail to understand.

I know of no monitor that wants or needs that. Like with temps, if you offer a range, then you have nothing to worry about. In deserts the monitors are constantly seeking to maintain a minimum level of body fluids. In wet areas, they seek the opposite. Think watersnakes, they are always out basking drying out. Think water monitors, EASY to find, out coming out of the water to DRY OFF. In all areas, monitors seek to dry out after rains, again, both in the desert and in the tropics.

Lastly, the main difference is the lid. Our indoor cages have lids and that coupled with high humidity can be very stiffling. And yes, constant humidity 75% or more, will do in most, in not all of my monitors(with lid on).

As desert monitors can withstand slightly more dehydration, tropical monitors can withstand more stiffling humidity, but why test their limits???? Why not give them a choice. You do remember giving monitors temp choices, hmmmmmmm I wonder if humidity choices is AS good an approach. Cheers

Negative, water in the cage will not, nor will it ever prevent dehydration. Dehydration happens when the living conditions are way to dry, not the lack of water dishes, or lack of water misted. Both can be peeing in the wind if the cage doesnt retain moisture and prevent the lizard from loosing whats inside its body.