Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I wasn't really planning to breed this guy but I decided what the hell and threw hin in with a creamsicle female
This is an ultramel with know grey rat lineage with one of my creamsicles.

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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congrats jimmy. He is a cool lookin snake. Best of luck this year.
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****Misty****

www.sneakyserpents.com

"Due to intense Mind fog, all thoughts have been grounded."

Jimmy congrats on the hook up

I don't mean to open a can of worms (or re-open), but is it an established fact that the ultra gene comes from grey rat crosses? Or is the grey rat cross just one way of introducing the ultra gene?

Sorry if this topic has already been beaten to death! I have heard different opinions on the matter, and curious.

Thanks for your response.
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Kent

I'd kinda like to know that too. I've seen some people on here state that ultramels are hybrids and my first thoughts were 'no they're not'. But to be honest with myself and with others, I really don't know enough about the history of the morph to say 100% one way or the other. Not to cause any kind of argument, far from it, I keep ultramels and goldusts and will breed them in the future. Just looking for a bit of education.

>>I'd kinda like to know that too. I've seen some people on here state that ultramels are hybrids and my first thoughts were 'no they're not'. But to be honest with myself and with others, I really don't know enough about the history of the morph to say 100% one way or the other. Not to cause any kind of argument, far from it, I keep ultramels and goldusts and will breed them in the future. Just looking for a bit of education.

well, it could open a can of worms but I think most of the worms have already been poured out of the can by now.
From what I can remember from a very in depth thread on the subject.....Back when the first ultras/ultramels were produced there was a female corn used.
This female was believed to be the carrier. She was supposedly bred to pure corns and grey rats.
Supposedly the breeding projects went in both directions and some say ultras and ultramels on the market today are pure corn and some speculate that there would have to be some of both.
The originators admitted using grey rat and one of them even stated that there was some speculation that the original female "corn" may have actually been a grey rat/corn cross.
If I looked long enough I could probably dig up that thread if you would like to drop me an e-mail. I can't link it from here.

With all of the speculations and reports of grey rat in ultra/ultramel some experiments were done using grey rats and corns.
This male ultramel, I have, is the result of some corn/grey rat crossing.
It wasn't 100% clear if he was ultra or utramel so a couple of seasons ago I bred him to the same creamsicle pictured above.
Only four eggs made it to fuul term but it was pretty obvious when they hatched that the male was indeed an ultramel.
two of the babies were amel (cream) and two were ultramels.
Am I saying ultras/ultramels are hybrids...no
Do I feel there is a likelyhood of grey rat somewhere in the ancestry of some ultras/ultramels...Due to the originators statements and the results of some breeding projects, I would lean towards yes.
what can I say?
Would I tell people who are buying/breeding ultras and ultramels that they are working with or producing hybrids...NO
There are ultra and ultramel breedings that go back for years.(with known pure corns...or at least as pure as corns are known to be.) With so many years of breeding to pure corns, even if there had been grey rat lineage, way back when, it would be impossible to detect it now.
After only 6 generations of being bred to pure corns the grey rat blood would be less then 2% and they have been around longer then that. A lot of people have been breeding them to their own corn stock long enough to dilute any grey rat blood that MAY have been in them down to less then a fraction of a percent. I honestly doubt it could be found in DNA testing.
So what we have are ultras, ultramels and a wonderful mix of morphs with ultra in them that would not show grey rat blood even with dna testing and we also have some ultra/ultramels out there that have known grey rat lineage.
Like emoryi mixes, as long as known grey rat lineage is stated with any offspring there really shouldn't be much to worry about.
One thing I have noticed, though, you can't really tell my ultramel apart from pure ultramels. This could be problematic.
Time will tell.
I think I will start working on a few side projects with this little guy just to see what he might add.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

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Jimmy I recieved somemore info about the ultramels at the Tampa show from Jamie at Twin Herps. If I remember correctly he said they are pure corn. He also told me to talk with Don S if i needed more info.
Tom

>>Jimmy I recieved somemore info about the ultramels at the Tampa show from Jamie at Twin Herps. If I remember correctly he said they are pure corn. He also told me to talk with Don S if i needed more info.
>>Tom

hmm..all ultramels?
or his ultramels?
Mine isn't ...lol

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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Jimmy I think he was refering to the original ultramels

>>Jimmy I think he was refering to the original ultramels

I have sent you an e-mail with a link.
That will give you more information on where the originals may of come from.
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Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Thanks for explaining that Jimmy.

Best of luck with this pairing. Those are beautiful snakes.

Good luck on producing a three species hybrid! I can't wait to see what they look like.