Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Okay, first and foremost, thanks in advance for your replies. I've read through all of the posts in this place on BDs and have gained a lot of knowledge doing so, but I do have a few questions.

I recently acquired two BDs from a friend of a relative who couldn't keep them anymore. They both appear to be male, and the poor guys were being housed together in a 20L aquarium. Now...I know this is entirely too small. What I didn't know until reading all of the posts is that apparently the two males is a very bad idea in the first place. (I'm like 85% sure their males, can't be positive as I've never had BDs before)

These guys are supposedly the same age, but I have no way to confirm that for sure. One is markedly bigger than the other, measuring at 19in while the other one is about 14. The bigger one is definetely dominant, spends a lot of time on top of the smaller one and I've seen him bite at the back of his head once or twice. Neither is missing any digits or anything, so thats good I guess. I have an 80gal terrarium coming tomorrow that I was going to use for both of them, and now I'm guessing you guys are going to say I shouldn't put them together. I can't go out and get another one today, it may be a month or so before I can find another...should I keep the smaller one in the 20L until then by himself or put him in the new big tank with the "bully" until then?

Their current basking light is not hot enough, around 90 or so, I'm fixing that as well. The smaller one is not nearly as eager or avid of an eater. (Sorry I don't have a scale to weight them yet.) I have vitamins and supplements I picked up for them (they weren't getting those either), and I just put a UVB light on their current enclosure and the new one will have one as well. They were being fed pellets, romaine lettuce, and meal worms...I'm going to diversify their salad and bug diet a bit but what I can't figure out for sure is how much they should be eating. I've been leaving the salad in all day, they don't really seem too keen on it. They both love the mealworms, and the bigger one is a cricket lover whereas the smaller I've only seen eat a few.

How often should they get crickets, mealworms, etc? How many crickets etc should they eat? Should I keep them separate even if it means a bit smaller than acceptable accomodations for the small one for now?

I really want to do the right thing for these guys, not sure they were in the greatest situation before. I definetely don't mind the additions to my collection.

Thanks!

Smaller One (sorry picture quality sucks, quick cell pics)

Bigger One

I would say IMO I feel your best bet is for sure leave the smaller one in the 20 tank until you get another larger tank. The larger male is not allowing him to get the heat he needs. With more heat and proper lighting his feeding habits will increase prolly within a couple of days. You will see him grow very fast due to this as well. Everyone has their own idea on how much their beardie should eat and they will say you should know their weight to figure out how much you should be feeding them. I try to look at it as if they are running after the crickets and doing everythign in the power to eat them then they need more. If they are letting the crickets hang around in their striking distance that is too much. I would say stop with the meal worms and go to crickets and then give them superworms as a treat once in a while but not often. Your dragons will eat veggies more often as they are older. Sounds like they are getting close in age to that though so continue to feed them veggies and leave them in the cage all day but move to collard greens and mustard greens with a little of the romain lettuce this mix will help more. Also for me I do not feed pellets and only have them around incase I have to go out of town and run out of crickets for whoever is feeding my beardie. The main things are getting them both into larger cages with proper lighting and heat. This will increase their feeding habits for sure in the smaller one. Good luck and hope everything works out.
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Do not attribute any action to malice that can be explained by stupidity.

Thanks for the feedback, to everyone.

I'll have my 80g here in a couple hours and they'll be living separately, actively looking for a bigger home for the little guy right now.

They said these guys are somewhere between 1-2 years old. Should they be offered crickets/superworms/etc every day at this point or should it only be a few times a week with the salad as the staple? I'm guessing at least the smaller one will need the bugs every day to help build him back up, just not sure about the bigger one.

Do you guys keep water in the cage at all times or just offer periodically, or not at all? I've been misting them every day and wetting down their salad. Haven't tried bathtime yet.

Where is the best place to bulk order crickets/superworms/etc from?

Thanks for your help!

I would give them live food daily along with the salads. I do use water dishes and mist twice a week and soak once but for sure this is going to be one of those subjects everyone does different and hopefully some others will give you more ideas.
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Do not attribute any action to malice that can be explained by stupidity.

Just an idea but you can setup a very simple temporary setup using a large rubbermaid tub........two tubs, a shop light and two clip lamps and you would be set with the two males until you get the caging squared away.

Otherwise I would keep them seperate. As was said, I would keep the smaller one in the 20 and get working on something larger.

I would do whatever it takes to keep them apart. It will get worse as they get older.

I have a rescue guy that was in the same situation. I rehomed the bully, but I've had the "victim" for about a year. He is definitely smaller and has noticeable damage. Besides some obvious MBD from the past, he is missing the lower quarter of his tail from being bitten off as a juvenile or adult, loss the full use of one arm, and can't eat properly with his jaw (probably a combo of MBD and the obvious past bite marks).

And they were kept in a 40gal breeder, but two males just get feisty.

Definitely set up the larger male in the bigger cage. I also think a larger rubbermaid tub would be better for the smaller one, or the 20L but no more than a month in there. If you feel it will take you more than a few weeks to a month to buy or build a bigger enclosure for your little dragon, go with getting a large tub. Not as idea but they are fairly easy to find and set up.

Food wise. The larger one I suggest a good mix salad everyday...about half a cup.. I would give superworms, silkworms, butterworms, hornworms and crickets. Mealworms are a poor insect choice and shouldn't be offered at all. Superworms are a better choice than mealworms. For the larger one, just offer a couple superworms (2-8) (or other worms as mentioned above, reducing number as the worms get bigger than standard supuerworm). Or better yet to encourage him to eat a healthy salad, just feed insects every other day, salads every day.

The smaller guy, I would feed a mix of salad and insects, heavier on the insects for the first couple weeks to get him eating and growing, but still have salad available all day.

For selecting a good mix of greens, use the nutritional guide found at:
www.beautifuldragons.503xtreme.com/Nutrition.html

To help you figure out if you do indeed have two males, the pictures here should help:

www.dachiu.com/beardeddragoncare/sexingdragons.html
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PHLdyPayne

Let me just say two BDs period is a bad in the same place, not just if they're male.
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0.1.0 Leopard Gecko (RIP)
2.0.0 Bearded Dragons

Just wanted to thank everyone for the feedback.

Still working on a bigger 2nd enclosure but they are now separated and smaller of the two already seems to be flourishing. He's much more active and almost instantly started to go all those places in the cage that the bigger one had staked as "his". He's started very actively eating his crickets (which he wouldn't do before, they would climb on him) and he seems to be doing very well.

The bigger one seems pretty impressed with his new expanded world, and is eating his greens throughout the day as well as his live food every other day.

The bigger one seems to have one nostril that is plugged up or something, I'm not sure whether or not to be concerned about it. His tail was shedding when I brought him home. Temps are just under 100 ambient air on the hot side, about 105 basking, and mid 80's on the cool side. He seems to be breathing fine and doesn't mouth agape unless he's been in the heat for a while and usually moves shortly after that starts. Could this just be a nostril shed that hasn't come out yet?

I could still use recommendations as to the best place to order live food online as well.

Thanks everyone.

Most likely the nostril will clear up on it's own. I wouldn't worry to much about it.

I highly recommend all below.

Crickets & Superworms:
[bleep].com

Silkworms:
mulberryfarms.com
coastalsilkworms.com
(I buy only eggs and food)

Hornworms:
Greatlakeshornworms.com

It's silly I can't post an excellent vendor. I guess it's because a lousy competitive vendor advertises here.

Just put the name, forget the .com's.

BTW, thanks a lot for the reply.