Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Chica started out as my most aggressive and least finicky eater, about a month ago. Crickets, roaches, hornworms, superworms, if it moved she'd eat it. Then about two weeks ago she got very hyper, started scratching around the perimater a lot and always wante to jump out and run around a little when I opened the tank up. OK, fine, the coming out was cute, but the restlessness while in the cage was new. By the way, she's a captive-bred July 2008 hatchling. Plus, at 8 or 9 inches and 40 grams, her proportions looked normal, so she was obviously not gravid, just very, very restless.

The, she went orange. Her sister Lupe from the same clutch didn't, and has continued to act normal, so I assume that going into heat was a factor. At this point, Chica was still eating fine, in addition to being hyper-restless in the cage and playful-curious outside of it, but about half a week later her appetite began to decrease.

We're at the point now where she hasn't eaten anything in a few days and her weight is down to 38 grams. The not eating whatsoever coincided with the beginning of a shed, so there might be a relation there; I don't know. She was a the end of it earlier today when I went to the store to try waxworms, but when I got back she was taking a siesta in one of the hides, so I'm not going to dig her out just to look at her.

Do heat and/or shedding tend to shake them up this badly? If so, what tricks can I do to minimize stress? Also, how long a fast/ how much weight loss is within the normal safe realm, where I should wait it out and avoid stressing her, and at what point do I call a vet. And if I do, what am I having them look for? She's passing clean stools, so there go the two easiest guesses.
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0.1 2006 Western Hognose (Bebe)
0.1 age unknown Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 2005 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 2006 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)
1.0 2006 Madagascan Speckled "Hognose" (Sigmund)
1.0 2008 Bullsnake (Winkle)
1.2 2008 Eastern Collared Lizards (Pancho, Lupe, and Chica)

Have you checked your temps lately? I have been having to adjust lighting and heat for a month now because of the warm up here. What are your basking surface and ambient temps? Do you use a temp gun to measure them?

If she went orange, then it sounds like she might have been gravid, but I don't know. Hopefully Eve can shed some light on when they are capable of forming eggs.

I check temps with one of those infrared guns. I'll try to not make this confusing, even though temps of complex habitats always are.

Room temperature is 79-82 during the day and 77-80 at night. There's 170 pounds of sand in there, about five inches, so their hides stay about the same temperature. It's a 75-gallon tank with two different-level closet bars fastened above it to suspend three different spotlights ranging from 40 to 160 watts. Two are regular incadescant Reveal lights; the highest-hanging one is a UVB. Daytime ground temp is usually in the upper 80s. (I tried lowering it to the lower 80s for a few days to see if she'd calm down, but she stayed hyper and the OTHER TWO started eating less, so I put temps back how they were and the other two went back to eating fine.) The most popular basking spots are:

1.A horozontal, elevated, 16"X8" brick that heats quickly to about 105-110, usually hits 115, and often exceeds 120. it also serves as support for the ends of two large branches, but at least half of its surface area is uncovered and illuminated.

2. A thick diagonal driftwood log, about fout feet long. The "uphill" end is about 6 inches in diameter, and they use not only the top but the sides of at least a foot of it that quickly hits 115-120 and usually breaks 130 on one side. and another that quickly heats to 120, always reaches 130, and usually breaks 140.

and 3. A horizontal log about two feet long and five inches in diameter. About six inches of that has temps ranging from at least 115 to at least 120, sometimes as high as 130.

I originally had #2 running over 140 and sometimes hitting 150, but there were some issues with how the other end of the tank was set up. By the time i had a warm ground temperature, cool-end elevated basking temps in the mid-90s, and warm-end elevated basking temps in the three digits, and enoughopen groun that the crickets didn't all have time to hide before getting munched, I couldn't quite get the hottest spot as hot as it used to be.

But the big fat one, Lupe, and little wimpy one, Pancho, are warm and happy and eat great now that I've got things back to how they prefer, so it ought to be OK for Chica, the "just right, Goldilocks" one. And whenever I touch Chica she's as warm as a gerbil or something. She's just... acting crazy. Not scared of me or nervous. Just.. weird and not hungry.

She went to bed a few hours early today and has stayed there, so maybe she tired herself out enough finally. I'll try dusted waxworms tomorrow morning.
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0.1 2006 Western Hognose (Bebe)
0.1 age unknown Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 2005 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 2006 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)
1.0 2006 Madagascan Speckled "Hognose" (Sigmund)
1.0 2008 Bullsnake (Winkle)
1.2 2008 Eastern Collared Lizards (Pancho, Lupe, and Chica)

Hey Jack, I would have to say that sometimes when they shed they don't eat for a couple days. Some of mine( Not all) will even stay under a rock/ or in a cave a couple days while shedding. Then after come out and all is well. While some just go about their daily routines while shedding. Each is different in the way they behave.

Just wondering why your temps are getting so hot?? 120 and 130 - 140/ 150 ??????

I know on some warm days mine can hit 115 degrees (basking spot) and some have said 120 degrees could be tolerated on a warm day. But normal temps in the basking spot is 100 -105 degrees 110 - 115 on a warm day is tolerated. The rest of tank can be in the high 80's to 90 degrees during the day.

I would not worry about your girl yet, probably was the shedding. However if this would continue( not eating) and she is noticably losing weight, then I would worry, and have her checked for parasites.

Also how long has she shown her orange color? She is ovulating and if bred will lay eggs 22- 24 days after she mates. Or she can still lay the eggs without mating, just will be infertile.

Let us know how long shes been orange Jack that will be helpful,
Collareds/ care, photos and more...

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PHEve / Eve

Those are the temps that her breeder said he keeps them at. I thought it sounded high too, more Chuckwalla than Collared compared to what most people suggest, but I started them out his way and they did great. Then when trouble started I decided to go with more conventional temps.. but, like I said, it didn't seem to help Chica and just made the other two eat less. They've got most of a 48X18 tank to run around at cooler temperatures in, both at ground level and on the branches. Most of the branches are only about 90-95, and these are big, thick logs that practically turn it into a two-level tank. The two highest-wattage bulbs are over one end of the tank, and the coolest one is over the other end so most of the tank gets more ventilation than heat-creep.

Pancho likes to bask in the hottest area possible and then run the cooler branch lengths. Lupe spends some time in the hottest areas, a lot of time on the coolest of the three spots I described, and is also the one most likely to go into a shadey spot during the day, although never for long. Chica uses all three warm spots equally and spends all of her cool-area time digging around the perimeter. Until she got weird, she was the one who spent the most time on the main floor.

I have no idea how much of what the other two didn't like when I changed it was due to changes in branch and/or light position and how much was temps, though. Or, alternately, how much of what cheered them up was exactly that same sort of variable.

I'm glad the appetite shutdown sounds normal. I hope it's just me being paranoid. I'll be watching and worrying to see if she ends up gravid though. When she first turned orange, there was a little bit of mating for 2-3 days,but she was eating and acting fine still for a while after that. She's big enough to send Pancho to the vet easily if she got mad at him, so she didn't seem shaken up by his advances. A bellyful of eggs is harder to shake off though.

Pancho's an unbrumated juvenile, so how much he really managed to accomplish reproductively, I have no idea. I hope for her sake that there's no eggs at all this year, fertile or otherwise. I wanted to take a year or two getting to know them before I actually cooled anyone down and worried about this kind of thing.
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0.1 2006 Western Hognose (Bebe)
0.1 age unknown Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 2005 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 2006 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)
1.0 2006 Madagascan Speckled "Hognose" (Sigmund)
1.0 2008 Bullsnake (Winkle)
1.2 2008 Eastern Collared Lizards (Pancho, Lupe, and Chica)

If she spent most of the time on the main floor, and not up where that extreme heat is, then maybe the tank is too hot for her. I notice that some of my collareds really don't thrive in tanks that stay above 85 at the cool end. Some are okay with basking temps in the 115 range and ambient in the upper 80s-90, but some clearly improve and eat better if I lower the ambient temps, and that doesn't seem to make a difference to the others. It just doesn't make sense that lowering the cool side a bit would affect the others as surely they could just move closer to the heat. My guess is that a change in lighting affected them more than the temps.

I would try lowering the temps, at least at one end of the tank. or put her in a cooler tank and see if she doesn't improve. Also, can you post a pic of her?

Yo Jack :0) I usually am open to most things as I will be the first to tell people never think you know it all, never stop learning no matter how long you have kept these guys or any lizards. But... there are some things that stay somewhat consistant give or take a few degrees.... You said the temps your using may be more for chuckwallas than collareds.
The temperatures your using of 120 - 130 -140/ 150 in certain parts of cage would be wayyyyyyyyy to high for any chuckwalla.
You would have a chuck on a stick and I say that SADLY, as I have kept chucks for years as well. They would go into hiding under rocks in nature when temps were that hot, and come out later when a bit cooler.

I do however keep Uromastyx, and they do like those upper temps of 120/ 130

Anyway, if your tank is working well, and your collareds are healthy , thats what matters. If you begin to have problems, I go through a mental list of what can be the problem and go from there. I think your girl was shedding, and I think shes gravid form what you say!
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PHEve / Eve

Hey, any time I'm wrong about something, no offense taken. I always had the impression that chucks likes it as high as uros, but I've never had either.
I think you've got something about Chica preferring a non-basking temperature than the others. I guess I need to do find a way to keep the ground of the cse interesting to her without cluttering it up toomuch to run.
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0.1 2006 Western Hognose (Bebe)
0.1 age unknown Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 2005 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 2006 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)
1.0 2006 Madagascan Speckled "Hognose" (Sigmund)
1.0 2008 Bullsnake (Winkle)
1.2 2008 Eastern Collared Lizards (Pancho, Lupe, and Chica)

It was the week before last. I don't recall which day precisely, but she got lots of little orange dots on her literally overnight. Then the day after that they were bigger, and Pancho was getting amorous. Mating was over in a few days as far as I could tell. He continued to eat normally and her orange stayed the same. Then early last week she started getting frantic, then after that she started eating a less. This week she stopped eating entirely, and her markings turned much redder. There also seems to be less of them. The reddening, the shed, and fast all kicked in within a day of each other.
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0.1 2006 Western Hognose (Bebe)
0.1 age unknown Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 2005 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 2006 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)
1.0 2006 Madagascan Speckled "Hognose" (Sigmund)
1.0 2008 Bullsnake (Winkle)
1.2 2008 Eastern Collared Lizards (Pancho, Lupe, and Chica)

You said you saw them mate? Does she look full through the middle? Well you say week before last you saw orange, so she woudl be going into the 3d week ?

Sometimes very close to laying eggs they will stop eating, begin to get nervousy and begin to dig, and dig, and dig some more, for days.
Also I do not know if you know this but they can have eggs without brumating/cooling they may not have as many fertile ones, or many eggs at all but they certainly can mate, and have eggs if not brumated.
Also you say the male is a juvey? Collareds can mate at 8-9 months old.

So if she has had her orange for 3 weeks or going on that long, you should give her a few piles of damp sand or a laying box/ nest to be on the safe side.
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PHEve / Eve

The mating was mid-week, so 21 days would be next week. I've checked her both by sight and touch fo signs of eggs, and there doesn't seem to be anything in there. However, the end that she scratches at most is next tot he water dish, so... maybe there's one or two that just aren't big yet? I'll bury a laying box there and keep it moist.

She now has a lot less marking on her, but it's red now, whatever that means. I've been tossing crickets in as I catch up reading responses here, and she was the first one to eat this morning, so I'm going to finish filling all of them up before before I go camera-hunting. Expect a picture before tomorrow though.

Oh, and about male breeding age: Pancho is only five months old. Now granted, maybe the fact tha they were raised at higher temperatures translated into faster growth. He was 31 grams when I got him, and I'd guess about seven inches. I saw one very textbook mating, complete with neck-nip and tail positioning, a couple of times that he tried but she didn't bother hanging around, and one time that their tail positioning looked like they might have been doing it, but since there were no other signs they might have just been basking with their tail-bases crossed. Hard to tell. But after a few days he wasn't even interested any more.
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0.1 2006 Western Hognose (Bebe)
0.1 age unknown Cane Toad (Hengo)
0.1 2005 White-Banded Sheen Skink (Minerva)
1.0 2006 Northern Diamondback Terrapin (Queequeg)
1.0 2006 Madagascan Speckled "Hognose" (Sigmund)
1.0 2008 Bullsnake (Winkle)
1.2 2008 Eastern Collared Lizards (Pancho, Lupe, and Chica)