Reptile & Amphibian Forums

what begginer rat snakes other than red rat snakes don't have the potential to get huge like black, yellow and everglades rat snakes?

>>what begginer rat snakes other than red rat snakes don't have the potential to get huge like black, yellow and everglades rat snakes?

bairds rat snakes.
Don't get quite as big as the obsoletas.
Get a little larger then corns.
Easy to keep
great attitudes
beautiful snakes

-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

thank you for the info. are there any eurasian rats that are begginers and stay reasonably sized? and what of trans pecos or are those not very good to start with?

>>thank you for the info. are there any eurasian rats that are begginers and stay reasonably sized? and what of trans pecos or are those not very good to start with?

sorry,
I don't keep either so I can't help you there.
-----
Corn snakes and rat snakes..No one can have just one.
"Resistance is futile"
Jimmy Johnson
(Draybar)
Draybars Snakes

_____

Here are a few that come to mind that stay at a reasonable size and are fairly easy as far as care goes.
Trinket ratsnake (Elaphe helena) Asian species
Bairds ratsnake, as Jimmy mentioned in the above post. North American species. Awesome snakes
Mexican night snake (Elaphe flavirufa flavirufa) These are really cool snakes. Very simular care like a corn, but I believe they like to climb a touch more. They have gorgeous eyes.
Emory ratsnakes. Very hardy, but not flashy as far as color, etc. unless you get an albino, or hypo, etc. North America.
Japanese ratsnake (Elaphe climacophora) I don't have any personal experience with these, but from what I understand they're fairly easy as far as care. Take on a greenish color as they get older.
There are several European species that stay small, but I'm not sure how easy, or hard they are as far as husbandry.
Leopard Ratsnakes. Gorgeous animals, stay small, but may run at a higher price then you want. Europe
Trans Pecos Rats are very beautiful, moderate sized ratsnakes. There are some excellent breeders on here that work with Trans Pecos that can offer great advice pertaining to them. I've never worked with Trans Pecos, but I belive they are a bit more sensitive to humidity.
Steve

>>thank you for the info. are there any eurasian rats that are begginers and stay reasonably sized? and what of trans pecos or are those not very good to start with?

I'd go with Jimmy on the bairdi being almost bulletproof, great looking, great feeders, great snakes. I would ask Randy Whittington about eurasians, don't do them but if he shows one more set of pics I probably will, lol! Scroll down to see some of his latest posts.
-----
Todd Hughes

baird was my first thought.....forgot about trinkets...they'd work.....

subocs wouldn't be good for beginner.....nor would the bigger beauties.....coxi are smaller than I thought even ,but not a first snake either...

first snake...corn, baird, trinket, maybe twin spotteds???.......

........
-----
......

..J Yohe ....

.

dione's rats, rhino rats, and bamboo rats for a start. but no matter what you choose, make sure you do your research!
GOOD LUCK!

true, they don't ussually get as big, but I have seen bairdi's at seven foot plus! What about emory rats, fox snakes, and subocs. most of the trans pecos I've seen where between three and five foot.

>>true, they don't ussually get as big, but I have seen bairdi's at seven foot plus! What about emory rats, fox snakes, and subocs. most of the trans pecos I've seen where between three and five foot.

The record length for a specimen of bairdi is 63.5 inches. A 7 ft bairdi would be a new record (and a giant for the species), and I would suspect probably a hybrid of bairdi x lindheimeri (or some other obsoletus subspecies).

-Toby Brock
-----
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

it has been some years, and with no photo as reference I suspect you may be right. although I did own a male that was six foot at the time of its demise

I also had a possible world record suboc at a tad over 68", so 6' is not unheard of. Emoryi are hardy, mostly smallish, and beautiful in their own right.
-----
Todd Hughes

>>I also had a possible world record suboc at a tad over 68", so 6' is not unheard of. Emoryi are hardy, mostly smallish, and beautiful in their own right.
>>-----
>>Todd Hughes

I was not talking about B. subocularis, Todd - I was talking about P. bairdi. Yeah, I remember the 68" suboc BTW, and that is a lot closer to the record for that species which is 66". Six feet (72 inches) is not unheard of for any of the obsoletus subspecies, but I'll stick by my guns on bairdi. I would want DNA proof on a six or seven foot bairdi, before I discount it as a hybrid.

-Toby

-----
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Toby, I was responding to Amerats response about subocs being smaller, not yours! LOL!
-----
Todd Hughes

>>Toby, I was responding to Amerats response about subocs being smaller, not yours! LOL!
>>-----
>>Todd Hughes

Ah, I see that now.

-Toby
-----
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Yes, I know there are a few freak giants out there! I have been researching, keeping, and breeding snakes most of my 30 years of life. Knowing that reptiles grow through out their life and with the availability of food, all captive reptiles have the capability of getting much larger than their wild counterparts! 68 inches huh! Wow, it would have been an ausome thing to see in person!

I pickled his skin for future tanning, after he died of natural causes of course. He was sold to me as an adult. I was told that he was originally produced by VIVID REPTILES, and was dubbed "Metallic Baird's Ratsnake." I have seen a few Vivid animals and he was a perfect example! Unfortunately I have no pictures or proof of his size, besides the people who saw and or handled him while he was alive. Definitely one of the best snakes I have had the pleasure of keeping!(ate like a champ and was great with children, didn't have an aggressive bone in his body!) He will be dearly missed, may he rest in peace.

My Baird's is as fearless as snakes get & always curious & observant. Great pet potential!

Matthew

Like all these dudes said, the bairdi would be a great choice. They are hardy, beautiful, stay moderatly sized and are very reasonably priced, actually they are WAY under priced.
The trinkets, leopards and twinspots mentioned are really nice, stay especially small but you won't beat the bairdi overall with any of them.

-----
Randy Whittington

>>what begginer rat snakes other than red rat snakes don't have the potential to get huge like black, yellow and everglades rat snakes?

The Steppes Ratsnake aka Dione's Ratsnake (Elaphe dione) is a small and hardy species. Easy to feed and mellow to handle, and stay a small size, 3 ft or less. They and the other northern Eurasians (Leopards, Twin-spotteds) will likely go off feed in the fall/winter, as they will want to brumate, and will need to be cooled if you plan to breed them. There are some interesting morphs of this species, but as far as I know, they are all still in breeders' collections in Europe. Hopefully some will make it to the U.S. some day soon.

Adult male Elaphe dione

-Toby Brock

-----
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

thank you for the replys. so on the smaller end of the suggested species like the leapord would i be looking at a 20-30 gallon cage size and on the larger end would it be a 40 gallonish size? if i'm wrong what cage sizes would i be looking at?

>>thank you for the replys. so on the smaller end of the suggested species like the leapord would i be looking at a 20-30 gallon cage size and on the larger end would it be a 40 gallonish size? if i'm wrong what cage sizes would i be looking at?

A 20 gallon would be a good size for a large adult of any of the small Eurasians mentioned. I keep mine in 32 qt tubs (roughly 24 x 16 x 6), and they are thriving. I would NOT recommend Leopard Snakes (Zamenis situla) as a species for a beginner, as they have some qualities which make them somewhat challenging. The other small Eurasians mentioned in this thread (Trinkets, Twin-spotteds, Dione's) are good, hardy, easy species for beginners.

-Toby

-----
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

thank you for the info. how big do japanese rat snakes get or are they not really begginers?

>>thank you for the info. how big do japanese rat snakes get or are they not really begginers?

I don't keep Japanese Ratsnakes (Elaphe climacophora), but KD Schulz says that they are usually between 120 - 160 cm (47.2 - 63 in), and up to 230 cm (90.6 in). So, think average Black, Texas, Yellow Ratsnake size. They are reportedly fairly easy to keep, as are most of the true Elaphe species found in Asia.

-Toby Brock

-----
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Toby I've personally found situla to be a hardy, undemanding species along with the bimacs and helena I mentioned before.
-----
Randy Whittington

>>Toby I've personally found situla to be a hardy, undemanding species along with the bimacs and helena I mentioned before.
>>-----
>>Randy Whittington

Randy,

You have much more experience with situla than I do, and I respect your word. However, they do have sort of a rep for being a bit challenging, and my pair have challenged me, somewhat. Mine tend to only want live small hoppers or fuzzies, and usually go off feed for a month or so during the middle of the summer. They also stop feeeding, in the fall, before any of my other Eurasians. Other than that, they are easy and undemanding. If I were a 'beginner', I might find these to be a bit frustrating. Schulz says that specimens from Greece are less problematic than other localities, and mine are descended from Croatian stock. So, maybe this is why mine are somewhat picky about food and prone to stopping feeding.

-Toby
-----
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

i don't know if you were talking about japanese rat snakes in that last post but i've seen snakes stop eating before, even though it was just a pseudo hybernation.

>>i don't know if you were talking about japanese rat snakes in that last post but i've seen snakes stop eating before, even though it was just a pseudo hybernation.

I was talking about (my pair of) Leopard Snakes (Z. situla) in the last post, going off feed. I don't keep any Japanese Rats, but I responded to your question regarding them, in another post, above.

-Toby Brock

-----
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Good info Toby and I'll keep that in mind. This is the kind of info trading that makes these forums so valuable.
I personally think a lot of species requirements or how hardy they seem depends on local, bloodline or how many generations away from wild caught they are. That's easy to forget when a line you have might act a certain way because it obviously isn't always the case for others of the same species. I think that's why it's good for people to buy from a breeder who will be honest about what their selling and any quirks their line might have.
I have kept species that had little things that made them tricky and had other breeders say they haven't had the same problems with theirs.
-----
Randy Whittington

>>Good info Toby and I'll keep that in mind. This is the kind of info trading that makes these forums so valuable.
>> I personally think a lot of species requirements or how hardy they seem depends on local, bloodline or how many generations away from wild caught they are. That's easy to forget when a line you have might act a certain way because it obviously isn't always the case for others of the same species. I think that's why it's good for people to buy from a breeder who will be honest about what their selling and any quirks their line might have.
>> I have kept species that had little things that made them tricky and had other breeders say they haven't had the same problems with theirs.
>>-----
>>Randy Whittington

Thanks Randy! I agree with everything you said.

-Toby
-----
Southwestern Center for Herpetological Research

Me too, Toby, he said free rat snakes and cape gophers to Toby and Todd, that's what I heard!!
-----
Todd Hughes

I got you covered. lol

-----
Randy Whittington

Oh, MY!!!
-----
Todd Hughes