Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Hey folks,
I am planning on making an appointment at one of our 'semi-experienced' local vets to have a look at one of my boas this coming week. I was hoping to get a little insight here if anybody has any to offer...
My 3 yr old DH sunglow female, who had been with my albino stud awhile back, has stopped feeding for a few months (no big deal right?) and started taking on the gravid look. All looks like it's going according to plan based on my past experiences. The bulge begins and ends where it should, she isn't eating, she was basking a bit in her hot spot... 93-95 degree basking, 81-82 ambient temps. Seems normal to me..
Here's where it starts getting complicated... she is becoming lethargic and stiffer than normal to the touch. I had thought she was dehydrated, despite her fresh bowls of water, and gave her some orally. She perked up a bit, but has since gone back to her previous state. In case she was impacted and not gravid, I put a little oil in the water to ease the blockage (if there was any) and a good warm soak. I also noticed what looked to be a bit of blood on my latex glove while cleaning fresh feces out of her cage and that was when I started really worrying. Hence, my plan to make a vet appointment.
Aside from that, no wheezing, no open-mouth breathing or rattling, no mucous... I am at a loss.
Visiting a local vet bothers me too though in its own way. There's a fellow who runs a rescue here and he says the most knowledeable vet here has given him diagnosis that, when he researched them, had nothing to do with the problems he'd experienced with his animals. Basically, that he had to tell the vet what he thought the problem was to get a real solution. Therin lies my concern, that I'd pay a great deal of money to get assistence that possibly may not even save my boa if her issue is that severe. I'd ship her out to a better, more knowleagable vet, but I am worried about how she'd handle the trip!
Any suggestions before I make my appt. Monday??

Thanks guys!
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
0.1 Sunglow 25% Suriname (Temperance)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
2.1 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle, Dumah, and Bonnie)
1.0 Hypo het anery (Don Juan)
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.1 2007 Mostly striped boa (Andromeda)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
1.2 Children's Pythons (Spot, Freckle and Speckle)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

Second, longer soak today and she actually drank quite a great deal this time... on her own. So I am wondering if she really is only dehydrated as I had originally thought, but it doesn't explain what look to be blood in her feces though.
Part of the reason, I had thought she was dehydrated because her skin was slow to retract when slightly tugged and the meaty part of the top of her head had shrunk down lower than usual, but her refusal to drink made me doubt that conclusion. Except that now she is drinking.
Would dehydration on a gravid boa cause problems that could result in smears of blood in a stool? Is it possible that it wasn't blood and that I am paranoid? I tend to worry excessively about my animals... but I think better to worry more, than not at all! I am still planning that vet visit.
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
0.1 Sunglow 25% Suriname (Temperance)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
2.1 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle, Dumah, and Bonnie)
1.0 Hypo het anery (Don Juan)
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.1 2007 Mostly striped boa (Andromeda)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
1.2 Children's Pythons (Spot, Freckle and Speckle)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

It's hard for anyone who isn't there at your place to give advice in this situation. Not knowing if your being overly nervous, or not. Breeding sure takes its toll on Boas - I've lost a few because of it. However, I'm pretty hesitant of moving my Gravid girls, even to clean the cage. I certainly would not feel good to soak them for a couple of reasons, unless your soaking them in the cage with perfect water temps -but Boas that soak will sometimes poop in the water. Gravid Boas that Poop will sometimes pass some babies. Heavy spraying on the cage walls with hot water can be one way to avoid soaking.
Also, a gravid girl would have to be obviously in a serious condition before I would drive her to a vet. I'm overly cautious when handling a gravid girl, and try to avoid it unless totally neccesary. The desicion is yours, and it depends on if your certain something is truly wrong with her. I hope that she does well for you.
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Snake room janitor

I rarely move my own gravid animals, but now that I am half convinced she is not and that I could have a worse scenario at hand, I felt it was necessary. If she is gravid, she does not appear to be far along. I did try heavy misting, but if for some reason she is refusing to drink from her bowl... I felt soaking may solve two problems at once, especially if she is just impacted in some way. She did not pass -any- waste, urates, or otherwise normal or abnormal internal contents during either soak... just drank a bit. However, she doesn't seem any more alert for the liquid ingested.
Her lethargy is very pronounced and I am starting to believe more and more that a moving her to visit a vet is within reason. Thanks for your advice... I agree with you on all points you brought up and normally practice them myself. I do also share the opinion that her health is more important than a possible litter, so wish me luck with the vet trip!
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
0.1 Sunglow 25% Suriname (Temperance)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
2.1 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle, Dumah, and Bonnie)
1.0 Hypo het anery (Don Juan)
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.1 2007 Mostly striped boa (Andromeda)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
1.2 Children's Pythons (Spot, Freckle and Speckle)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

Steph, I do not have 20 plus years experience with Boas but seem to have seen my share of seemingly uncommon bad issues in my short years of experience.
From what you describe Lethargy,obvious dehydration(the skin slow to retract or bounce back) even worse when or if you see a
Boa doing this unusual muscle tensing as if cramping or very uncomfortable looking.
These are usually bad signs/symptoms from any experience I have and from several I've talked and read about with others.
The problem here is as you've stated inexperienced or non Herp vets. Most often non herp vets are close to useless when it comes to Boas.
Even experienced Herp vets often see very few Boas and have limited experience treating them.
I would suggest taking feces samples and getting tests for bacteria and blood within the feces etc...
They should be able to at least send it to a competent Lab for such workups. If they themselves don't know what to look for..
Really even if you loose the litter its more important(from my perspective) to save the female Boa.
You could be dealing with anything from a Boa that's slightly dehydrated (sounds worse to me) to a gestation or breeding complication to bacterial sepsis .
The last two are my concern seriously.You know your animals best ,
so if you believe something is wrong there is a good chance this is true.

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

That is along the lines of what I had thought. I would rather be safe than sorry any day. She is not acting normal and the long bulge where my other gravid females would feel soft, is firm to the touch and obviously uncomfortable.

Good advice regarding the vet as well. The vet I am referring to is supposedly reptile experienced, but in other reptile folks' opinions... not as adept as they claim apparently. I figure if there is a mass or build-up in her posterier third that is not related to prenancy, he should at least be able to tell. As well as take the blood samples, etc. Stool samples may be difficult to come by right now, since she has not really eaten or passed any waste aside from what I found three days ago, and was tossing into the trash, when I realized the smears on my glove looked like blood.

I did not mean to sound as panicked as I did, but I care a great deal about my animals and wanted to believe that I was a victim of unnecessary paranoia. I realize I am bound to experience losses breeding any animals, but I like to think I am a responsible pet owner and do what is necessary to keep them healthy.

Thanks for everyone's insight!
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
0.1 Sunglow 25% Suriname (Temperance)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
2.1 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle, Dumah, and Bonnie)
1.0 Hypo het anery (Don Juan)
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.1 2007 Mostly striped boa (Andromeda)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
1.2 Children's Pythons (Spot, Freckle and Speckle)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

If the vet doesn't suggest an ultra sound you should .
If you can retrieve the stool from the garbage it will/should
still be testable at 3-4 days old.
As long as its not mixed up with anyone else's stool .

. . . Lar M
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Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

It is a community trash can and the moment I tossed it in, it could have been possibly 'contaminated' as you said, by other animals waste. My luck of course, that I did not notice the discoloration in/under the stool until it had left my hand, because it was fresh when I cleaned it out.
Thanks for the ideas, I will make a short list of suggestions for when I go in case the vet does not bring any to light. Can't hurt to have my ducks in a row in advance to my visit...
Thanks!
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
0.1 Sunglow 25% Suriname (Temperance)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
2.1 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle, Dumah, and Bonnie)
1.0 Hypo het anery (Don Juan)
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.1 2007 Mostly striped boa (Andromeda)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
1.2 Children's Pythons (Spot, Freckle and Speckle)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

fecal samples are only good for at most 24hrs and only if refrigerated. plus, the longer it sits and if you get it out of grass, dirt, trash, etc, you risk having more debris or artifacts that can many times, resemble bacteria or parasites. parasites will die and be unnoticable after 24hrs of evacuation. your vet, even with limited or semi experience with snakes, should be able to obtain a fresh fecal sample, at least enough enough to do whats called a fecal float and direct smear.
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retic is king of kings

1.0 Tiger Retic
1.0 Albino Tiger Retic
0.1 Striped Tiger Retic (het albino)
0.1 Salmon Boa
1.0 Albino Boa
0.1 False Water Cobra

That is good to know, I will make note of it as well and inquire of the vet to attempt to get one if they don't suggest it on their own. I guess I should have assumed that a vet can get one regardless of whether it is given freely...
Yeah, the stool was tossed into a community trash can before I noticed that there was anything wrong with it. Of course, that can was also emptied and tossed out, so as you assumed.. it is useless. I had thought to grab it when I noticed the smears on my glove looked like blood, but I grab bedding that is soiled as well when I clean. When I gingerly attempted to find the clump to show my fiance and get a second opinion, I had some trouble identifying which stool was the correct one.
Thanks for the help!
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Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
0.1 Sunglow 25% Suriname (Temperance)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
2.1 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle, Dumah, and Bonnie)
1.0 Hypo het anery (Don Juan)
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.1 2007 Mostly striped boa (Andromeda)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
1.2 Children's Pythons (Spot, Freckle and Speckle)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)