Reptile & Amphibian Forums

ok,,, i really appreicate all the help here, for this newbie(me,,hehe)...currently my king is in a 20 g long tank, and I use aspen bedding.....I was thinking of changing the aspen bedding to the green turf so that I can feed him in his tank and not worry about him swallowing the aspen...Im really woried about the aspen, as I had a brother who lost a corn snake a few years ago because it swallowed the aspen, so im very stern on not feeding him on the aspen...so I narrowed my options to two, either feed him in seperate container, or switch the tank to the green turf and feed him on this...what are opinions on this turf? do kings like this? I do know he borrows in the aspen, and concerned with the turf he will be more skittish cause he cant borrow any more...he does have hides in his tanks, but doesnt use right now due to the bedding...2nd question, what is the opinion of most on live v f/t? I understand that you have to be careful w/live, but i heard that mostly w/ rats and not mice, cause mice dont really attact the snakes...he has been eating F/T, and i figure to keep him on that..thanks again, Pete

my young snakes are on newspaper its no fuss easy clean just rip it up and replace as for burrowing fill a small box up with some shredded newspaper so its quiet fullcut a hole twice the size of your snake and your snake will do the rest this acts as a burrowing type method(although burrowning is down over but you get the point) also he will feel very secure in this as it is tight. as for the feeding i only feed frozen/thawed because i cant afford yet to set up my own mouse farm. so you will have to get other opinions on this matter.
-----
Cheesemonkey

>>ok,,, i really appreicate all the help here, for this newbie(me,,hehe)...currently my king is in a 20 g long tank, and I use aspen bedding.....I was thinking of changing the aspen bedding to the green turf so that I can feed him in his tank and not worry about him swallowing the aspen...Im really woried about the aspen, as I had a brother who lost a corn snake a few years ago because it swallowed the aspen, so im very stern on not feeding him on the aspen...so I narrowed my options to two, either feed him in seperate container, or switch the tank to the green turf and feed him on this...what are opinions on this turf? do kings like this? I do know he borrows in the aspen, and concerned with the turf he will be more skittish cause he cant borrow any more...he does have hides in his tanks, but doesnt use right now due to the bedding...2nd question, what is the opinion of most on live v f/t? I understand that you have to be careful w/live, but i heard that mostly w/ rats and not mice, cause mice dont really attact the snakes...he has been eating F/T, and i figure to keep him on that..thanks again, Pete

I keep all my adult snakes on news paper easy to clean and no worries of ingestion. Depending on the species and how well its accumulating I will use newspaper on the bottom followed by shredded newspaper for "extra" hiding/security/borrowing. I find my colubrids like hiding under the newspaper so I try to fold it certain ways to give them extra hiding areas.

I think most natural substrates have pros and cons to them and I have tried most of them and always go back to newspaper. My biggest worries are ingestion of the substrate followed by the small possibility of introduction of insects/eggs depending on where/how it was processed.

I wouldn't recommend green turf as it holds the smell/bacteria is a pain in the butt to clean and shreds over time.

If your snake is taking F/T there is never a need to change as its the most beneficial to you and your animal.
-----
Jason A.
"Long time Herper, first year Breeder `07."

If you can get him to eat regularly in a separate container, that's ideal.

He gets the idea... "Oh, I'm here! Time to eat!"

We do that with both our corn snakes and it works real well. However, my kingsnake eats in his cage. I put the F/T mouse in a dixie cup so it's not right on the bedding. Once he gets it in his mouth, it doesn't really matter if he drags it onto the bedding.

Plus, I use Cypress Mulch for bedding. The pieces aren't so fine as Aspen, and it's really cheap. You don't have to buy it at Petsmart, you get a huge bag at Lowe's or Home Depot.

Whatever you do, don't use Cedar Mulch. The aromatic wood can kill your snake.

Newspaper is great, but it's so boring. It doesn't give an appealing experience for the observer. They love to burrow in the mulch, and I believe it's more natural for them, therefore less stress...

Good luck!

Walt

I would NOT recommend green plastic turf - it is a #$&8* to clean and becomes permanently stinky. Also, it offers no burrowing opportunities (except for the snake to get under the turf and possibly burn itself if you are using and under-tank heater). I use aspen and have never had a problem b/c I always feed in a separate container (which has the added advantage of breaking the snakes' association with cage opening and the immediate appearance of food). For hatchlings, I put a 5 by 7 index card under the hide and put the pinky in the hide before I go to bed -- the little ones prefer eating in the quiet and in the dark. As for live versus f/t, f/t is the way to go. Save gas with fewer trips to the mouse supplier or save hassles and smells by not raising your own mice. Live mice old enough for their eyes to be open can and sometimes do bite the crap out of a snake and leave scars. Make sure you thaw the f/t mice thoroughly before you feed them to your snakes. Finally, you should READ the on-line care sheets written by experienced herpers. Read as many as you can find. The more you learn about the snake the more you'll enjoy it. Good luck!

Tom

Take that advice - when I was 8, my second snake was a common boa. I popped a live mouse in the tank and went to bed. The mouse decimated his hide from neck to tail, and he died days later. You don't want to wake up to that, especially at 8.

I don't like feeding in a separate container. There are times when you must, like if you have a colony, and I am sure there are other reasons too.

King snakes are aggressive when their feeding response is triggered, but subsides when they are done. Also, you have to handle a snake that has just eaten in order to put him back in his cage risking regurgitation - that or leave him in the feeding container.

I've read some folks think it's more sanitary to feed in another container, but I'd argue that the crap later on is a bigger problem, and you don't put in a bathroom container, right?

I agree with newspaper - safe and ugly.

I agree with everyone what they said here about the astro turf.

If you really want to learn about keepings snakes then GO BACK and read FR's posts. He is the most experienced and has been around since before time. i don't know how much longer he is going to hang around here, but we are lucky to have him.
-----
Signature edited

I personally don't think feeding thawed or pre killed rodents on aspen is any problem at all, just make sure and totally dry off rodents before feeding if they have been thawed in water.

-----
Randy Whittington

Randy -- nice knoblochi hook-up going on there -- and very nice thayeri. Those eggs in the last shot look like winners! Thanks for sharing the pictures . . .

Tom

Cheesemonkey
-----
Cheesemonkey

AAAAAAAHHH! TOM MY EYES!!! LOL, AGAIN!
-----
Todd Hughes

AAAAAH, RANDY, MY EYES!!!!!LOL!
-----
Todd Hughes

No worries, keep asking any and all questions. After all, that is how we learn, and believe me, we all ask questions, as you can never stop learning.

The others are right about the green turf, and I personally would skip it.

You concern about feeding the snake on aspen is understandable. Like Randy said below, make sure that if you are using FT, then dry off the food item as completey as possible. TGCorley had a great idea about using the index card to be underneath the hidebox when the food item is placed inside. You can also just move the aspen away from the hidebox area, creating a " hole " in the aspen, leaving just the glass bottom of the tank showing, placing the food item there, then placing the hidebox back on top of where the bare area of the bottom of the tank is. I have also heard of just using an open plastic container with no lid, and placing that in the cage, with the food item inside, and placing the snake in there. Then, he just eats, and crawls out the open top when done.

Stick with FT.

Take care!
-----
Genesis 1:1

Here's a link to the last time I respnded to the feeding tub question. I don't believe it's necessary for the snakes' well being. I do it for myself, because I feel it is more sanitary than letting a mouse disintegrate in the enclosure. That, and the aspen doesn't stick to the mouse.

forums.kingsnake.com/view.php?id=1660849,1661072&key=2009
-----
Diego

SWCHR

This was supposed to go under the "Feeding in a Shoebox" thread. My bad!
-----
Diego

SWCHR

Still works! You could pile the aspen around the edges and the snake will seek out the prey by scent, giving a little more cover.
-----
Todd Hughes

Promise?!! LOL! Don't worry about asking questions, the only dumb ones are the one's you don't ask! I would put in some time checking the archives though, many of your questions have been answered many, many times. It shows you can do the homework and care about your snakes. I like the aspen, you wouldn't believe some of the stuff I've seen snakes eat in the wild, sticks, small rocks, dirt, etc. when subduing prey. Mostly when they are wet, stuff sticks to the prey. I feed 71 snakes on aspen and haven't lost one yet to an impaction. That said, you are wise to be concerned. As I stated before, you could put the prey item in a hide box, literally, a small box or bowl with lid, hole cut out and feed in the cage. The snake may drag its' prey onto the aspen, but 9 out of 10 times they eat it pretty much where they attack it. I have always fed live, stunned for some smaller snakes vs. adult mice, or live tossed in to adults. I really don't like the carpet stuff because it holds a lot of stank and is difficult to clean, aspen is easy to spot clean. My .02.
-----
Todd Hughes