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Can anyone Identify this grey banded kingsnake for me.  I am thinking alterna or sanderson?

There is only Alterna or Blairs phases. That one is Alterna phased. Sanderson is a locality

Gray bands with thick red bands are referred to as Blairs Phase, those specimens lacking red or with very little red, like yours are referred to as Alterna phase.

"Sanderson" does not refer a phase, but rather a location where an animal or the original breeding stock of an animal was found.

I am assuming that you do not have locality information on your animal, so it would be considered a generic alterna phase Gray banded kingsnake.

Nice looking animal.. Good Luck with him!

~ Mike Russo

I agree with Mike - alternas are so variable, if you didn't reliably get the location, you can't be certain. Davis Mountain, at least for me, is easy to spot. But even then, I wouldn't bet my life on it. I think the best absolute statement you could make about Grey Bands would be "that blairs isn't from El Paso." But you know, just as soon as you do, someone will find one there

But it's an Alterna, and it's a damn fine snake.

I was there when alterna first were collected. Of course, not the very first, but close. I was also one of the pioneers in mexicana breeding.

In the early days, blairs phase had red that split the black and had fewer bands, Under 16 normally. Alterna, could not have red that split the bands and must have a higher band count. Over 16. Of course, there is a grey area, hahahahahahahaha pun intented.

The purist at the time considered it an alterna, if it had no red what so ever. Which was very very rare.

So the individual in question is a narrow banded blairs with a few alternets. Even wide banded blairs can have a few alternets.

The alterna you showed may not be considered an alterna because its low band count and no alternets. Consider, what alterna means. alternating bands. Big ones, then small broken bands.

So an extreme alterna could be represented by a speckled blackgap. No red splits, double or triple alternets, high band count. And an extreme blairs one like you posted, wide red, no alternets, low band count.

And yes, both in captivity and nature, there IS everything inbetween and more. Cheers

Narrow banded blairs would work as a accurate description as well..

From what I have read I was under the impression that the first Gray band was collected in 1901??.. Wow.. still posting on the forums 108 years later.. I guess if you were there I gotta tip my hat to you!!

~ Mike Russo

Mike it does surprise me how you youngins, cannot read so well. Among the first, does not mean the FIRST, to collect or the first to produce. If you read Denny Millers book, he mentions a fella in Tucson was producing over 200 a year, Hmmmmmmm that would be me. That was written in the early seventies I believe. I caught my first alterna in 1970. I was lucky and found a number of them. So I produced them very shortly after that.

I believe the first blairs was way way later then 1901, found by a bridge as they filled Amestead(sp)lake. Something like late fifties or later. I cannot remember exactly, but I went to the spot.

If you consider, there are thousands now keeping blari, then being in the first dozen or so to produce them IS AMOUNG THE FIRST. Same for collecting.

I remember finding my first really good alterna phase, I sat looking at it and thinking to myself, so this is one of those, having never seen one alive or dead before. I thought, it kinda reminds me of a spotted night.

The first blairs I saw was in 66 or 67, it was at the alligator farm across from Knotts Berry farm. at the time I lived a couple blocks on the other side of KBF. Ken told me that a fella walked in with a bag of snakes, the fella said, the normal ones are $2, the pretty one is $3. So they bought the pretty one, a nice lite phase blairs, for $3. hahahahahahahaha the fella explained how he drove across south texas and picked up snakes to sell them when he got to California.

Now days, some of you may go find your first and think, hmmmmmm this is not/is like the one on so and so's website. Hmmmmmmmm a different reality. Then we heard about stuff, then got to actually SEE it in real life. Now, you see stuff and not really SEE the real stuff(for so many) a bit like playboy/girl, see funny pictures, then go be with a REAL WOMEN/man. I will take the real women anyday. Paper is so flat. Theres more to seeing a snake, theres feeling a snake, and feeling where it comes from. And not a shoebox either. Being lucky enough to be amoung the first to do so many things herp related is a joy I have and none of you can take that away. Cheers

I used to frequent that place a lot in the 60's. My parents would drop me off and they would go acrooss the street to knotts Berry farm. I was a weird kid.

Remmeber that Indigo they used for the talk? And that huge crocodile!
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Ken took me into that Crocs enclosure. Cheers

Extreme blairs? Hahahaha. Maybe an aberrant blairs, or
"Back before the civil war, grandpa alterna had an affair with one of the blairs housekeepers" blairs.....but an extreme blairs?

It is a lampropeltis alterna.

I know scientific names are suppose to be meaningful, but over the years, they have proved NOT TO BE. At least not to a keepr or field workers. More meaningful amoungst taxo and cladist and such, just not to us. At the current state of SN confusion, common names are so much more accurate.

The reality is, A blairs is a mexicana, as is an alterna. That should not be forgotten. Blairs and alterna were considered to be different species not that long ago, until a fella from UofA caught a gravid female just south of the devils river bridge. It produced both alterna and blairi phases(I did that with thayeri) I actually went to his office and saw the animals. Then he consolidated them. But still, they are different, a blairs discribes one thing and alterna describes another.

So here we are sitting on a kingsnake forum, here I think alterna and blairs are names that work sorta well. The scientific names are due to change soon anyway. What will they be next. A fox snake???????? Wait, is a fox snake a rat snake or a pit??? hahahahahahaha I know, I know what it is, its a fox snake. Have fun and Cheers

I agree with you in spirit, blairs and alterna. But I believe they are separate morphs, not separate subs. Either way, they are both a pain in the @ss.

at this time subspecies are not in vogue with SN, so that is not to be considered. hahahahahahaha

So you like me are living in the past. Which at times is preferable to the present in certain cases.

The actual point is, you can call them morphs, phases, polymorphic, whatever. They are exactly what they are. Particularly in nature.

The reality is, each local has its own unique set of morphs and phases, and these do change as time and locality change. This includes all mexicana.

All tend to have a alterna pattern and a blairs pattern, this includes greeri, mexicana, ruthveni, thayeri, pyro, etc.

Take pyro, in southern az and northern sonora, we have high band count "knob" color patterns, and low band count "woodeni" patterns in ALL the southern mountain ranges. The band counts range from 24 to 80's, hmmmmmmmmm huge range.

I have seen these knob types in the Animas to the east, all the way to the Quinnlands to the west. And in many of the mexican mountain ranges. As they go south, that Knob pattern becomes more prevalent.

This goes for mexicana as well, The alterna types are more common in northern mex, then they merge to thayeri and mex mex.

Even Ruthvens have high band count "greeri" types, and low band count "blairi" types. Again yes, I have seen them all in the field. I have some funny field stories about these as well.

Again I was amoung the VERY first with this animal, both in captivity and in the field, I found the fifth thru the 32nd of these(in two days) I could say i had the first captive breeding, but I only sorta did. L.A. Zoo bred them but called them, L.t.arciferia. As they came in before they were named, so they called them the nearest thing to them. But they were ruthvens. At the same time, Dallas zoo was producing real L.t.arciferia.

Again, it really does not matter to the animal what we call them and it does not matter what we call them in nature, as they ARE EXACTLY WHAT THEY ARE. No matter how many times we change the names. In nature, they are what they are. What we call them is mostly prejudiced bullbeans. Current, popular, to solve an arguement between people, is all meaningless to the animals.

So it becomes about us. We are english, so we should use what works the best at time. Its about utility(of use) at this time SN is in a little rut. Cheers

Thanks for all the great info, and great entertainment, ok thanks for the great posts.

Ok, so altera and blairs, ok? Hahahaha.

I wonder what type of strange alterna can be had on the other side of the river, south of big bend? If the Black Gap animals are freaky (my favorite locale), I wonder what's on the other side?

I smell a mission.

We're gonna need guns and bottle openers.

Maybe some Viagra too, you know, for you

Richard

Yup, can you imagine what is still left to find??? And I have no need for viagra, I tried it, naw, it only resulted in a hat rack. Besides, why viagra while snake hunting. Is their more that I have missed out on? Cheers

Please, nobody check cracks with hat racks while field herping, it could cause damage to the cracks AND to the hat rack! Carry on!
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Todd Hughes

Always use a mirror and a good light to check for nasties and see what is in the crack before attempting to use the hat rack. You do NOT want to be envenomed on the hat rack while field herping. Asking your herping partner to help is out of the question, unless they look like those babes Frank was hanging out with last year! Post that pic Frank! I hope they answered your question correctly, I had a tough week and need to see some more crack shots, not hat racks in cracks! That is all!

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Todd Hughes

Yeah, las mujeres during the day