Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I woke my male Cal. King from hibernation about 3 weeks ago and am breeding him to my female. He hasn't eaten as of yet which I understand is not out of the ordinary. Was just wondering how long it might take for him to have an appetite again?

Mike
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1.1 Cal. Kings
1.0 Ball Python
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.0.2 African House Snakes
0.0.1 Oketee Corn Snake
0.1 Salmon Boa Constrictor
0.0.1 Marbled Salamander
0.0.1 Japanese Fire-Bellied Newt
0.2 Labs

If you warmed him up he should be eating. if he is off food he may just want to breed already. Males kings do go off food sometimes during breeding season. Has he been in with your female this whole time? If so, you should have seem him on top of her trying. If you don't have him in with her then do that asap.
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They have been together twice now. And yes there has been some breeding. I was planning on putting them together again today. He ate the first week after I woke him up and then he stopped. I was just wondering what amount of time after breeding ceases he might begin to start eating again.

Mike
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1.1 Cal. Kings
1.0 Ball Python
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.0.2 African House Snakes
0.0.1 Oketee Corn Snake
0.1 Salmon Boa Constrictor
0.0.1 Marbled Salamander
0.0.1 Japanese Fire-Bellied Newt
0.2 Labs

If he is like most of my males, he may not feed again till after his next shed.

~ Mike Russo

Ok. Thanks. Was just wondering.

Thanks
Mike
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1.1 Cal. Kings
1.0 Ball Python
0.0.1 Jungle Carpet Python
0.0.2 African House Snakes
0.0.1 Oketee Corn Snake
0.1 Salmon Boa Constrictor
0.0.1 Marbled Salamander
0.0.1 Japanese Fire-Bellied Newt
0.2 Labs

You should leave them together. Don't take the male out of the females cage until she is gravid. He will not eat her as he is more interested in other things

All my males stay in the females enclosers until the females are definetly gravid and ready to lay. I never undertsood why people take the males out one night and put back another.
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Agree... But, you do hear horror stories every now and then.. I know it's not very common, but a good friend of mine just had his Greeri Female eat his Greeri male while they were together for breeding!

~ Mike Russo

you do hear horror stories every now and then.. I know it's not very common, but a good friend of mine just had his Greeri Female eat his Greeri male while they were together for breeding!

Oh man I hear these stories and i still don't get it. I have been breeding kingssnakes since the 70's and have been maintaining a large colony of snakes for over 25 years. I never had a problem of adults eating each other. This year I am putting mini males (yearlings and 2 yr olds) with huge florida females. Never a problem. I also started keeping all my 2008 neonates to 3 per cage due to lack of space. Still No problems.

Now maybe these stories are due to some other reason, like the keeper is feeding his snakes mice and handles a king with those mouse scented hands and places it back in the cage and the other snake reacts to it??..HECK I CAN'T IMAGINE WHAT THEY ARE DOING???. LOL!. My best guess is they are probably starving their snakes. I find that most people that post on here don't feed their kings karge enough mice. i always post here telling people to feed large items and more frequently and some yahoo posts that they should feed snakes a food item that is a certain girth and give their snakes bottled water so they don't get fat. YET THAT SAME KING ATE ANOTHER THE SAME SIZE AS IT.

I just fed a 18" king a baby chicken yesterday and it didn't choke on it or explode. The snake will be stronger for it and live a longer life. Keeping snake in captivity on a diet is THEE MOST moronic advice i have ever heard.
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I 100% agree on your feeding thoughts and I have also heard some INSANE husbandry stories.. I have never had a problem during breeding season either, but over the years I have had hatchlings try to eat one another a few times.

I hope I didn't upset you? That was not my intent.

~ Mike Russo

No Mike you did not upset me. Sorry but sometimes I go on a rant.

I have had babies eat each other to but only when they have not eaten yet or are starving from eating pinks. Once i get them on fuzzies I never have a problem and they calm down. I can usually get fuziies into them after the second feeding.
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To think about.

Feeding large food items can be very problematic if your temps and conditions do not allow digestion of large prey items. This is one reason most do not do what you do. If they try, their snakes requrgitate their food.

Your absolutely spot on, in nature they do consume very large prey items, but they have TOTAL control over the temps and conditions they need.

Dehydration also causes regurgitation, wild snake control their hydration. If they start to dehydrate, they drop their body temps and conserve both water and energy until conditions return to something they can utilize.

I was out today with Mark Bell, and showed him a young Blacktail with a large food bolus out in the sun, and the rest of its body under a boulder.(I took pics) (regional heating).

Also about the reasons why some kings eat other kings is being glazed over here. They have very important behaviors to bond with other kings in nature. If this is not done, they they consider other kings, to be only some other kind of snake. They will consume other snakes.

They tend to bond as hatchlings. That is prime, but, they can also winter together and form bonds there. Of course, this is just now being worked with, so these two areas may only be a small part of what they do.

Somehow science has labelled most reptiles as non social animals. But if you go over to the field herp forum, you will see so many people finding groups of snakes together, even groups with several different species, TOGETHER.

This is exactly what we see on a daily basis.

There are several problems as to why this is not understood well. Timing is one, Schools are in "CLASS" in the fall, winter and spring. Snakes are in groups, late fall, winter and spring. Classes are out in the summer and thats when "students" are available to do field work. Snakes forage in the summer and the groups are often very loose or they break up during this time.

So what you get is, many species are in groups for 3/4's of every year, and solitary for 1/4 of the year. Unfortunately, they are studied during the foraging period.

Interference is another, if you have groups and catch them, and install radios, the groups break up and scatter in all directions.

After your snakes lay eggs, THEY FEED. Winter/Spring, pairing and breeding, summer and early fall, feeding/foraging, then do this over again. late fall to spring, is reproductive mode.

So, if you guys tried raise them together and tried to brumate them in pairs/groups, your animals can be socialized to live together. That is the task of the keeper.

As I have already mentioned, I keep kings in groups and do not even seperate them when feeding. And I do not feed large prey items. I feed lots of small ones.

Also like you, I do not understand the diet thing, I can feed everyday(smaller items) and they grow long and thin until they reach sexual maturity, then they bulk out. Of course, if a snake or group of snakes is getting fat, all you have to do is allow them NOT TO FEED. In nature, some populations only NEED to feed for short periods. Two weeks to a month of heavy feeding is all they need. Then the rest of the year they conserve energy.

If the temps are to low, they grow short and fat. Folks this is not about diet, its about the ability to use energy.

This is the unique design of reptiles, they can conserve energy by lowering their body temps, and expend energy by raising their body temps.

What is hilarious is, these snakes are in groups when the temps are low, fall, winter and spring. There is no need to feed, and not need to feed on your mates.

Of course there is so much more, and not enough time to write it. Cheers

... I was wondering if any of your snake set ups are able to include the use of real and direct sunlight for the snakes to use in their heating/thermal regulation? I'm betting you do for your varanids?
I'd really like to see any of this kind of set up if you use it.
Many kings are fossorial I suppose but I know you keep other species too.
I remember way back when I had only a few as a kid and how some species absolutely thrived on being able to use it.
Green snakes, racers, coachwhips, southern hognose, and indigo come to mind..(yes, they were legal at that time) All bred well being allowed an outdoors type enclosure. Nothing when kept indoors.
I still use sunshine to induce my southern hogs to breed. It seems to "turn them on" and I'm kicking around making a decent enclosure for them that would include somewhat of a "natural" setting. That's why any ideas or tips would be appreciated.
BTW I really liked seeing those corals from the past.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

I have to say I agree 100% with this. Why are people so afraid to feed their snakes??
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Diego

SWCHR

I hear ya Mike. A good buddy of mine just had a cal king female try to kill the male after the breeding this year. She does this often, and is known as the Black Widow! HA HA! Unfortunately, she has killed another male in the past, and this male this year was quite lucky!

I had it only happen once back when I bred snakes, with a adult male Cal king that tried to kill the female the minute I put them together to breed. Thankfully, I was there to make sure that didn't happen, and they bred without problem the next time.

It is just one of those things with some kings, hence their name and reasoning behind it.
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Genesis 1:1

It is just one of those things with some kings, hence their name and reasoning behind it.

Billy you are one of the biggest proponents on here for starving your snakes. Your advice is always to feed pinkies and certain sizes and not to often. You also tell people their snakes can get fat if overfed.

This is not an attack on your personally.I just don't want to see it happen to other people.

When someone posts a question about their 13"-18" kingsnake that is 2 years old you still tell them to feed pinks or whatever size fits their neck. You also suggest feeding sparingly.

No wonder your snakes eat each other. If they did this in nature there would be extinct.
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" Billy you are one of the biggest proponents on here for starving your snakes. Your advice is always to feed pinkies and certain sizes and not to often. You also tell people their snakes can get fat if overfed. "

Huh? What are you talking about? Where did this come from? I was responding to Mike's post about breeders trying to eat each other, and you post this about feeding pinks? This has nothing to do with the subject at hand.

" When someone posts a question about their 13"-18" kingsnake that is 2 years old you still tell them to feed pinks or whatever size fits their neck. You also suggest feeding sparingly. "

Fits their neck? That doesn't even make sense. I have never even used that term.

" No wonder your snakes eat each other. If they did this in nature there would be extinct. "

My snakes do not each eat other. I was talking about what happened long ago with one snake. LOL! Seriously, please stick to the topic at hand.

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Genesis 1:1

Billy,
As you well know we have been back and forth on this subject for years. Don't play to the audience.
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There is no playing. I spoke along with Mike about breeder kings trying to eat each other. You make a presumptuous post regarding myself, talking about feeding pinks to baby snakes, and appear to want to start some debate. Very strange. Two different subjects. It made no sense. It is that simple.

Time to move on. Have a good one! Kudos on the new site, btw!

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Genesis 1:1