Reptile & Amphibian Forums

in breeding Diamond Pythons outside all year here. I've just moved this female inside as she's getting ready to lay eggs. I'm pretty excited as this is the first time I've ever tried to breed Diamonds and have always thought it wouldn't be too difficult if they were kept outside. THANKS FOR LOOKING...

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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Congrats, Tom!

She is a real beauty- keep those pics coming!

//Todd

Major congrats Tom...keep us posted...I also have believed for many years that diamond pythons need exposure to UV for their overall health and to avoid the problem of tremors and tumors in long term captive specimens. (based on the Barkers observations)
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

DUDE!!! How cool is that!

Frank...as we recently discussed with other species, I think diet is also to be taken into account. Too many people in this hobby equate fat with healthy. This is likely not the case.
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

Mike, if you look at the female she's not fat but extremely muscular and you're exactly right about the fat part. When you give these snakes LOTS of space as I do and don't overfeed them you get snakes that look like healthy w.c.'s not Italian sausages with tiny heads. A lot of folks overfeed their snakes to begin with and then keep them in small boxes to boot. Over time these snakes always have shorter lifespans and do not breed as well......
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Absolutely, Tom...she looks great! Good luck.
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

Too many people in this hobby equate fat with healthy. This is likely not the case.

I do believe most people overfeed and as Tom stated no room to "roam", no foraging for prey. But certain snakes also benefit from natural unfiltered sunlight and in some species I believe it may be critical for their long term husbandry. While one would argue perhaps these pythons are nocturnal, I bet they are diurnal at times of the year and also use their darker coloration in winter to absorb heat from direct sunlight. I have already discussed this several years ago with you in regards to Black Pythons.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Frank, I temp gun lots of my outside stuff just to help me better understand what is REALLY going on in terms of their behaviours. After one night in the low 50's I temp gunned a basking Diamond in the hot afternoon sun and it was 96 degrees farenheit and remained in the sun the rest of the day. That is MUCH hotter than most snakes would choose but it clearly CHOSE to be that temp. I believe the sun is extremely IMPORTANT to these snakes. Another very important fact is that ALL my animals have choices something a lot of herpers do NOT take into consideration at all. Most snakes are kept a somewhat constant temp in inside cages which is problematical or can be......
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Tom,

I agree...I have read alot of posts from Frank Retes on this exact subject and if given "choices" obviously the snake knows what's best for itself.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

Well, if anyone can do it, it's you, Tom. I was in Australia in '96. July in Sydney (their winter) was in the mid to upper 40's, but warmed up quickly. The Blue Mountains which is part of the range that was a major barrier to early exploration had the same type of temps. Diamonds are native to that area and it's possible that the combo of those temps and good sunlight does the trick.

Absolutely...compared to the snakes, we don't know jack!
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

There is a paper that is due out soon on the effects of UV on cornsnakes. Corns because they are numerous, so a large group could be studied. While the paper is not looking at the benefit of the UV it is looking at the direct effect. That effect is much higher calcium levels in the blood of the snakes exposed to UV.

Is there a benefit?? Maybe, maybe not. But if you think you need more active calcium in the blood of your snakes for them to use...

Many of our snakes bask in the wild and if it is shown that during this basking they are producing calcium like lizards, we are all missing the boat on a huge part of snake keeping in my opinion. Yes our snakes are doing "fine" without it, but so do many lizards... until you see problems in their legs and jaws.

Jason

Jason,

I would be interested in that paper when it's released.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

UV light is believed by many to be a key element in preventing (Diamond Python Syndrome ) in Diamond pythons. In Australia it's very common for keepers to maintain their snakes in outdoor enclosures. So far lots of mixed results. I don't know of any official studies but UV and diamonds has been experimented with for many years.

A very well known Ft Myers diamond breeder has been keeping his in outdoor enclosures for the past several years with good results. I think he's going to have three clutches this year.

I don't know if UV lighting is essential or not . Cooler temps low 60`s to maybe 85 along with routine python breeding stuff worked fine. With diamonds it's not so much breeding them it's long term health issues that's the problem. At 6 to 10 years a high percentage fall a part. Literally. I long believed this was from a lack of UV lighting but in seeing all the trouble the guys in Australia have keeping them in their natural range............. Nobody knows what causes Diamond Python Syndrome . I still think UV might be part of the problem with this species.

Some old scans on mine , baby diamonds are ugly but they do get better.

Ernie Eison
WESTWOOD ACRES REPTILE FARM INC.

Personally I think part or all of some long term problems with Diamonds as adults stem from improper diet as neonates. Everyone wants to feed them endothermic prey when in nature they feed on ectothermic prey. The reason is most herpers have a belief that if you feed lizards or frogs to snakes you will harm them in some way[parasites etc]. I've fed lizards and frogs etc for years and never had a problem. I've always felt than when you force an animal to change its diet out of convienance or imaginary dangers it can't be good for them long term. This is why you get some kinking with Grey-Banded Kings and why d-3 is used as a supplement with some breeders. Anyway we'll see what happens....It could be a combination of diet and UV light...All of this is speculation on my part but I will investigate more completely over time...
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Tom Crutchfield
www.tomcrutchfield.com

Without a doubt!
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"He who would stifle debate rather than engage in it, does so at the expense of his integrity and credibility"

Mike Curtin

Tom, It is great to see you using your experience and knowledge as a basis to try new methods of working with animals. When I first saw your posts concerning the outdoor enclosures I thought they were interesting. As you've put up more pictures and information it's gotten exciting to see what's happening. I hope you continue to keep us posted!
Andy Via
Richmond, Virginia
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