Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I really have been racking my brain trying to get a finger on this one.

I expected a sunglow jungle litter but instead got a hypo motley litter!!

Syd is the hypo het albino female i used in htis breeding. I followed her follicle growth and introduced Santo, a jungle het albino on 10/25/08 when she reached 20mm.

So after 10/25 i notice Santo courting her hard, and even witnessed a couple of copulations.

Everything looks great and she ovulates on 1/1/09 with expected delivery on 4/16.

She dropped yesterdsay, 4/11 and to my surprise, i din't see any jungles, or sunglow jungles.

What i did see surprised the hell out of me, and confused me even more.

There were 5 hypo motleys, 3 motleys, 5 normals, 3 hypos, 2 albinos and 1 sunglow!! Maybe a couple of the normals look like jungles, but at this point, i have no clue.

And to be completely honest, i don't even remember ever putting my Motley het albino with Syd. If it happend, it happend back in 07 and for a short time because i tried to breed Santo to Syd back in 07 too! But she never ovulated.

So...could it be that a hypo het albino bred to a jungle het albino can produce a litter of motleys???? I know its a stupid question which leads me to my next....

Did my Motley breed her for the couple of days he was in with her in 2007 (which i don't recall even happening), whose sperm she held onto until 2008 as she went into cycle again...and even though the jungle copulated with her, she only became gravid from the Motley's sperm?

Pretty intersting stuff. I wish i could remember when or even if i ever did introduce my motley to her...i'm sure i would have remembered that...i write everything down and have gone back and found nothing.

I guess i'm not as meticuluous as a i thought.

Link

Kevin, Now that's a real humdinger of a problem. Those are some crazy looking Motleys. Maybe a couple are Motley X Jungle crosses. Regardless of what you expected looks like you still came out like a banshee. Congrats and look foward to many more. The Drewmeister

I love it! I hope you aren't less excited about these results than what was expected. I guess all scientific evidence would point to sperm retention but that first Hypo Motley has a special look to it in my opinion.

It does look like a motley litter but I don't know? Congrats and good luck with that.
-----
Ty Hege
Rat Race Solutions
www.ratracesolutions.com

How old is Santo? If he's a young breeder he might not have been firing live rounds??
-----
Thanks,

Dave Colling

www.rainbows-r-us-reptiles.com

0.1 Wife (WC and still very fiesty)
0.2 kids (CBB, a big part of our selective breeding program)

LOL, to many snakes to list, last count:
26.49 BRB
20.21 BCI
And those are only the breeders

lots.lots.lots feeder mice and rats

and sired a litter for me prior to this so it can't be shooting blanks...???

Definitely had a nice outcome though! You think you will try that pairing again next season and see if you get the same outcome, I'm curious to know!
Got some really NICE little guys in there... you should post updates when they shed!
-----
Steph S.
Boas...
1.1 Albino boas (Loki & Hope)
0.1 Sunglow 25% Suriname (Temperance)
1.4 07 Het. albino boas (Petty & Lady,Sierra,Madeline,Lola)
0.1 Reverse stripe poss. het albino (Cookie)
0.1 Salmon/hypo (Scarlet)
0.1 Anery poss. het snow (Missy)
1.0 Anery (Reno)
1.0 Probable Super Salmontine(Kahn)
0.1 Salmontine (Sonya)
2.1 DH Sunglow (Gabrielle, Dumah, and Bonnie)
1.0 Hypo het anery (Don Juan)
1.1 07 Hypo pos. triple hets (Rico Suave & Pumpkin)
1.0.1 Het. Anery (Guy & ?)
0.1 2007 Mostly striped boa (Andromeda)
0.3 Normals (Ophelia, Sasha, & Lulu)
1.0 Surinames (Solomon & Surreal(deceased)
1.3 Hog Isles (Mr.Orange & Peaches, Tang, Isis)
0.0.1 Central American (Sassy)
1.0 ATB (Satan... seriously!)
Pythons...
2.1 GTPs (B., Monty & Jewel)
0.0.3 BPs (MJ, Precious, Houdini)
1.2 Carpet Pythons (Jackson, Charlotte, & Cassandra)
0.1 Blood python (Akaia)
1.2 Children's Pythons (Spot, Freckle and Speckle)
Misc.
1.1 Mandarin Ratsnakes (Jack & Jill)
1.0 Boxer/Pitt Mutt (Tyson)

That is weird! Awesome looking motleys though. Would love to see the rest of the litter....Congrats, despite confusion!!!!!!
-----
Cheers,
Jessica
10.15 Ball Pythons; 8.9 Corn Snakes; 0.0.1 Green Tree Python
2.2 Jungle Carpet Pythons
6.6.1 Bci
3.0 Crazy Dogs and 2.0 cats
Some Tropical Fish
...........and growing!

They are cetainly strange looking Motley Boas,looks like some huge Jungle influence.
Does the fem Sid have a strong circle back pattern or did either of her parents ?
All I can say is " Way Kool "!
. . . Lar M
-----
Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

She just looks like a really nice hypo. I don't know what her parents are, nor the name of the person i bought her from.

I"ve been thinking about this hard...and i can't recall ever placing my motley with her...i've had him tied up with other females for the past two years. I had always planned syd to breed with Santo.

So...i was wondering...how was the first Motley produced?

Did it come of a regular breeding? and how many?

Could she carry the gene for it and not be phenotypical??

I'll post more pics later...definitley some intersting looking motleys there!

The J. Stone Motley was a Colombian boa imported as a baby in 94.
Then Ron St Perrie picked it up and bred it at least one baby
survived with Jeremy purchasing the whole project
and producing first litter in 2000.
Then I believe Jon Roylance produced Motley by a
Colombian x Colombian breeding in 2001.

. . . Lar M

-----
Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

out of the columbian to columbia breeding...how many were motleys? Was that pair tried again?

I don't remember complete details .
I believe only 1 Motley popped out.

. . . Lar M
-----
Boas By Klevitz
Boas By Klevitz

there are definitely Motley Jungles in that litter. Some are more obvious then others but i've seen Mungles/Jotleys in person at J.Stones house and you definitely got some in that litter. Looks to be even a Hypo version or two. Congrats and hold on to those for a while before you let any go.

I can't tell if their are Motley Jungles or not, but if their are, then the Hypo mother or Jungle father has to be throwing out the Motley genes, because their could only be one father per baby - not a combo. To me , it looks like an issue of sperm retention. Or the Hypo female is popping out Motleys. Or the Jungle male is popping out Motleys. What a cool suprise.
-----
Snake room janitor

I'm a little confused but how could there be motley jungles in that litter?

Angel,I posted before I actually read the whole deal and David brought up some ggod points. Still,i've seen such animals in person and from his litter they look like and even more of what i've seen from the forsue breeding. I'm now very confused as to what the deal is but there are either obvious Mungles/Jotleys in this litter. I kinda want BCIexotics to give me a PM so I can talk to him directly. Some animals can easily be over looked but there is no EXCUSE for the animal in the middle pic on the right. That to me is the most obvious Mungle i've ever seen. Even from Jeremys babies. Whatever's going on is definitely wierd! How cool! I luv when Boas throw monkey wrenches into what we thought should be! CONGRATS again on this mind boggling litter!

cages? You sure one animal didn't get out over the last year or so? It could have been a planned pregnancy if you know what I mean!? That girl is pretty hot! Congrats dude. Can't wait to see them bred again to each other and maybe her to another if you get the same results.
-----
Ty Hege
Rat Race Solutions
www.ratracesolutions.com

if that were true...i wouldn't be stressn out so much due to my confusion!

But seriously, this female was bred multiple times by Santo...i witnessed many copulations...he was all over her...and he got on her right when she was in cycle all the way until after she ovulated. It was textbook.

Now...is it the pairing of these two adults that produced this pheonomenon?

He sired a litter before and produced only jungles so my thinking is no.

It's her first litter, and i'm thinking that she carries the motley gene 'sans' phenotype...which makes me wonder how the first ever motley came about?

My guess is the Motley was the dad-as amazing as it seems!
Though the extent of viability of sperm in Boas is not very well known, we do know that in pythons and pit vipers it is quite lengthy. In Ball pythons there are records where females have laid two clutches in a row on a male breeding her only before the first clutch was laid. This is well known in snakes such as Mangroves Boiga dendrophila, which can lay three or more clutches in a row from only breeding prior to the first clutch.

I anticipate we will hear more reports like this!

Great results-and you just added to our information!

I would be interested in hearing more details as I'm intrigued! Congrats on some cool babies regardless!

I would say sperm rentention but if you cant remeber it happening then who knows. They do look nice though. Keep thinking, there has to be a good explination for this.
-----
Chris Farmer
Explicit Reptiles
www.ExplicitReptiles.com

All you have to do is repeat the breeding. If you breed to the Jungle and get Motleys again... Then the Jungle is the father of this litter.

If you don't get Motleys, when you repeat the breeding... Then this litter is probably the result of retained sperm.

That's about the only way to remove all doubt as to "who's the father", of this litter.