Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I think this one is going to be quite a bit tougher to fight. I don't know what the response is in the rest of the country, but here in FL, people support the python ban. As I was getting my non-reptile friends to sign the HR669 letters, I kept hearing, "Oh, but the pythons should be banned. It's so sad that they are taking over the Everglades."

I was wondering what the feedback was like in other regions of the country and among non-herpers. Since I have a 13yo daughter in the performing arts, I have a lot of friends at our classical ballet school, youth theater, etc. They are typically people who don't keep reptiles as pets. While they will sign these HR669 letters for me as a friend as to protect their guinea pig pets, they aren't too crazy about saving the snakes, LOL!

I worry that too many of us-understandably, I think-are taking the wrong tack with this. We SHOULD be emphasizing two aspects-the economic effect of these bills, which would devastate the pet bird, small animal, fish and herp industries-as well as the aspect of taking away such mainstream pets as birds, mammals and tropical fish (especially from KIDS).

Although WE are passionate about it, I'm not sure saying something like "Can you BELIEVE it? They are trying to take away my pet pythons!!!!" is a winning strategy.

Most people CAN believe it-and might be inclined to help...
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Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Brad,

I agree with you. This whole mess really isn't about pythons or even pets; at a high level (ie, a level that can be understood by ALL citizens, not just reptile lovers) it's about bad law, way too much Federal power, and corruption. Somehow we need to make that clear to people (or as you said, at least capitalize on the fact they are trying to take away cute, furry pets), as opposed to simply saying "don't let them take our snakes away from us." As unfair as that is, probably 9 out of 10 people either don't care, don't like snakes or have bought into the python hysteria.

Are any organizations or individuals looking into legal or disciplinary action against some of the corrupt government "scientists" causing the hysteria? I don't understand how these guys can get away with saying/doing whatever the hell they want, even when shown to be completely bogus, WITHOUT repurcussions or punishment. That's what scares me the most.

Thanks,
Ed

>>I worry that too many of us-understandably, I think-are taking the wrong tack with this. We SHOULD be emphasizing two aspects-the economic effect of these bills, which would devastate the pet bird, small animal, fish and herp industries-as well as the aspect of taking away such mainstream pets as birds, mammals and tropical fish (especially from KIDS).
>>
>>Although WE are passionate about it, I'm not sure saying something like "Can you BELIEVE it? They are trying to take away my pet pythons!!!!" is a winning strategy.
>>
>>Most people CAN believe it-and might be inclined to help...
>>-----
>>Brad Chambers
>>WWW.HCU-TX.ORG
>>
>>The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

I understand and agree with your point of view. My approach is not save my snakes, but save your rights! My friends who do sign are the same ones that vent with me about our political complaints (a whole different thread!). In fact, that's why they oppose HR669. Most of them only have cats and dogs, but oppose the government interference and wasteful spending.

But without even mentioning it, they bring up the python ban. In FL, the general public is well aware of the "escaped and menacing" Burmese python threat. Trying to explain to them the economic impact of banning all pythons, etc is like talking to a wall. They already have a presupposition before I bring it up.

Which is precisely why I believe the ONLY way there is even a snowball's chance in you know where to save our hobby is to go after the corrupt government employees (ie, our employees) who generate the propaganda. I have no idea how to do that, but if they are not exposed and the public continues to be lied to, we might as well fold 'em up and go home.

Anyway, thanks for taking action. I followed another poster's lead and just contacted one of my local news stations here in Raleigh, NC.

Thanks,
Ed

>>I understand and agree with your point of view. My approach is not save my snakes, but save your rights! My friends who do sign are the same ones that vent with me about our political complaints (a whole different thread!). In fact, that's why they oppose HR669. Most of them only have cats and dogs, but oppose the government interference and wasteful spending.
>>
>>But without even mentioning it, they bring up the python ban. In FL, the general public is well aware of the "escaped and menacing" Burmese python threat. Trying to explain to them the economic impact of banning all pythons, etc is like talking to a wall. They already have a presupposition before I bring it up.

as did I..... I don't know if they'll do a story or not, we'll see.

As I was told, government officials work best under mild stress.
Government specialists have a public duty to make educated judgements. I don´t know about the US but in Norway government employees have a duty to reply within 2 weeks.
In Norway our ban against the private keeping of reptiles is managed by the food safety authority. When someone is caught keeping illegal leopard geckoes, they end up in the freezer of the food safety authority. Pople caught keeping reptiles often appear in the newspapers. The food safety authority is ond of talking BS about "the illegal reptilekeepers".
We also experiance that sending letters to our food safety authority is like speaking to a wall.
However, at some point some forumfolk amongst terrariumkeepers started confronting the foodsafety in the newspapers every time we grew aware of some rediculous coment from their part in the newspapers.
Given a little time several functionaries in the food safety authority grew considerably more careful about what they said to newspapers and how they formulated themselves.
The animal rights movement in our country uses several channels to win public sympathy for their views. One of these channels I believe is one of our zoos, the Aquarium in Bergen (AiB).
AiB have been talking alot of BS about private reptilekeeping since the they got a new director. Kees Ekeli, the new director had a blog against reptile keeping for a while, until we raised alot of attention and rage in the herpetocultural comunity and got in closed. AiB through Ekeli is also very very fond of slinging [bleep] regarding herpetocluture in the newspapers.
So, last spring in a moment of idiocy I stole one of their caimans on a busy saturday. Even though the zoo is open all days the theft was discovered 2 days later. After that I claumed responsability for the theft returned the caiman and accused AiB of mistreating their caimans. This exploded in the newspapers for several days.
Now..
Since reptiles are illegal, there exist no guidelines for keeping such animals. Zoos recieve dispensation for keeping animals by the food safety authority but they don´t have any competent personel who can see the difference between responsible and irresponsible caiman husbandry.
When I accused the zoo for mistreating it´s animals the food safety authority had to answer alot of questions to alot of reporters and alot of their quotes were published in articles in newspapers.
It is alot easier to nail a government specialist to the wall when there is alot of media attention present.
Maybe you can find some smarter way to confront them other than stealing caimans but when you are able to attract the medias attention, you can provide the journalist with the input from the herpetovultural society, the gocernment specialists, the pet industry and the animal welfare movement and see what kind of article you get.
In any case some journalists will pe partial to either herpetoculture or animal liberation and their articles will be tinted accordingly. When an animal rights oriented specialist talks to an animal rights oriented journalist you will often get very nice quotes which you can use to your advantage in followup articles or future correspondence.
When you get a tasty quote, fire up your troops and have them flame (in a civilised manner) the specialist who has given the quote and hers/his boss. Often you can experiance a bottleneck effect in an area where one boss is connected to several specialists who like to talk BS about reptilekeeprs in the newspapers.
Divide and conquer is a favored strategy used by the AR movement to impose small restrictions in small places but this strategy can also prove effective in confrontation of local government.
In my oppinion the local reptile forum, herpetological society, zoo and pet industry have to act toghether with local media and USark and or kingsnake.

regards
oby

Here in Co, with regards to HR669 I have been finding that many people are not even aware of what it is. Most who do know, assume (have been led to believe) that it will only affect reptiles and a lot of non-reptile owners don't care to protect them. In getting letters signed I have been focusing on the fact that this is not a reptile only issue and everybody is at risk. What's to stop them from targeting certian dog species next?
My brother has been helping me by making some phone calls to some of his friends to get letters signed for me. One friend he called, knew about HR669 and his comment was simply that he didn't care to sign because he didn't even like reptiles. My brother tried to inform him that other animals were at risk here too but his friend disagreed. Guess what... this guy owns a tropical fish store!

Not entirely shocking, and that kind of ignorance/apathy is what our enemies LOVE--I think S373 is the real agenda, HR 669 is practically designed to (and, God willing, will) fail (with all those cute furry things on it). As such, after we beat 669, we should focus (nearly) all our attention on S373. We really don't need non-herpers if we oppose it in sufficient numbers (though the support can't hurt), as soon as possible and as often as possible (think wave after wave of letters/phone calls to the committee members--I've already done both once). For the next week though, we should have tunnel vision on HR 669 (and any other proposed regs like the ones in CT).