Reptile & Amphibian Forums

My albino just laid her first clutch today. I have hatched a lot of stuff and live birth for boas, but first time for burms.

I am told 2 months or 60 days for incubation.

I am also told that it is okay to cut the eggs at 58 days to make sure that none die in the egg.

I'm looking for any input available.

Thanks,
Rick

One more thing. A couple of the eggs seem to have dented (caved in a bit) since I placed them in the incubator (inside the box). Is it possible that these are not fertile while the others are?

By the way - 36 eggs in all.

Thanks,
Rick

Congratulations on the clutch!

The denting, in your case, is usually the result of low humidity. Could be dry pockets in the incubating medium or the humidity being too low overall.

Incubating period averages 56 - 60 days. Some people slit eggs (or cut the tops open) that haven't already been slit by the snake around the 58th day. Basically a matter of preferrence. I tend to let Nature take it's course, but do intervene some here & there every now & then.

Best wishes!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Thank you.

Any suggestions on what to do to improve the humidity or if it is even a problem? Most of the eggs look good.

I have one last question. I had a very hard time getting one of the boxes of eggs to regulate at 88-90 today. For several hours (5-6) they were under temp and in the 85-87 range. I think I finally have it worked out. Do you think that the cooler temps during that time frame is a killer?

Thanks again.

Rick

"Any suggestions on what to do to improve the humidity or if it is even a problem? Most of the eggs look good."

Depends on your setup; incubating medium, tub/container/lid, the type & design of the incubator, etc.

Most of the inexpensive indoor/outdoor thermometers that also measure humidity are accurate enough. The lil' stick-on humidity strips & dials sold in pet shops aren't. I would place an indoor/outdoor therm. in the tub(s) and make sure it's at least 80%.

As long as the eggs don't collapse much further than what you've described they should be fine. If you see them continuosly collapsing you'll need to add a tad more water to the substrate. I usually use a spray bottle with warm water, set to a fine mist, if needed. If there's room in the tub(s) to set a small container of water in, go that route.

The eggs in the following photo were in pretty bad shape, as you can see, but the majority of them still hatched since I stopped the loss of humidity.

"I had a very hard time getting one of the boxes of eggs to regulate at 88-90 today. For several hours (5-6) they were under temp and in the 85-87 range. I think I finally have it worked out. Do you think that the cooler temps during that time frame is a killer?"

They should be OK as long as you eliminate or reduce the drop so it's not a contiuous thing or lasts longer than that time frame. Now you see the importance of setting up & running the incubator about a week before it's needed so those kinks can be worked out without endangering the eggs. If we'd all be honest, most people, if not all, that have incubated eggs have found their self in your shoes. Been there, done that, myself.

If you're still having trouble getting fairly even temps all-throughout your incubator, post your setup info and we'll see what's the easiest, best, route in your case. Could need to add a small heat source in a specific location, heat deflector(s), installing a small computer fan in the right location, etc...

Hang in there!
HH

-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com

Thank you.

I will post some pics of the incubator set up when I get home from work.

I am still having a hard time with the temps.

I have two boxes (Sterilite) of eggs. One is reading about 91.2 and the other is reading at 86-88.2 different temps throughout that box. This box with the variance is also the box that has the probe from the Helix in it.

I am using two Radio shack indoor/outdoor digital therm. with humidity reading on it, however I think that it is measuring the humitidy in the room, not in the boxes. I need to figure out how to change that.

I'll send pics of the set up later today.

Thanks,
Rick

Rick,
Temps in the mid-80's for a few hours will not cause a problem, however a few days at these temps probably would. Your temp of 91 is actually perfect for artificial incubation of burmese eggs, provided your thermometers are accurate. With maternal incubation, averaging 92 F, burmese eggs will almost always hatch at 56 days, and occasionally 57.

When it comes to manually pipping eggs, I am even more out there than HH. I never manually pip any eggs. I figure that if that animal can't remove itself from the egg as it has evolved to do so over millions of years, then it wasn't meant to make it. This may seem harsh, but is obviously a personal choice for everyone. There is absolutely nothing wrong with manually pipping the eggs and I have no issue with the practice, it's just that I chose not to. I use maternal incubation 95% of the time, and have done so since the late 1970's. However, one way that I do interfere, is that I remove the female from the egg mass as soon as the first egg is slit by one of the hatchlings. I always cut open every unhatched egg in a clutch, and don't ever remember losing a neonate to what I thought was due to the inability of that hatchling to pip the egg shell on it's own. Additionally, it was extremely rare to find an egg that didn't hatch with even a close to full term neonate. And remember that this is with a large pile of eggs stacked several layers deep. Good luck with your eggs, and I would be very interested to see your incubator design.

Kelly

Thank you.

Okay - now I am a bit confused. I was just told today by a breeder I know that I should not exceed 91 degrees or it starts to kill things off. He said 86 is better than 91.

My goal is to get settled in right at around 88 to 89.

I will snap some pics of the incubator in a bit and post them. I make some adjustments and the bins are now closer in temp.

Thanks,
Rick

Okay here are a couple pics.

I got the design from NERD's Ball Python book, but super sized it.

There is a compartment on the left side that has a divider from the main incubation chamber. The compartment houses 5 100 watt heat bulbs. There is a fan at the top of the compartment that sucks the air from the main incubation chamber. There is also a fan at the bottom the blows the heated air into the incubation chamber. Each shelve has a cut out at opposite sides allowing the moving air to circulate.

I think my main problem was that this design was too tall. So today I closed off the hole that was in the shelf directly above the top bin. This essentially cut the size of the incubator in half and stops the process of removing air from the incubation chamber. Now I only have the one fan that is blowing the heated air into the chamber.

It seems to have stabilized for the most part. The bottom bin is still a little hotter since the heated air is coming in from the bottom.

Comment and suggestions are welcome.

Thanks again for the input so far - it is very appreciated.

Rick

Alright - it turns out I don't know how to post pictures in this form.

Any ideas?

Rick

If burmese eggs are incubated at 86 F, you would be very lucky if the young hatched at all, let alone without developmental abnormalities. I know of a clutch of burmese eggs incubated at 85 F, and all the eggs failed to hatch, and all died in the egg. Almost all python species require at least 86 F for incubation success, and I agree with your friend that the vast majority of python species eggs would not survive if incubated over 91 F. However, the molurus group (Burmese, Indian, Sri Lanka) requires higher incubation temps than any other python species. Female molurus hold the egg mass at an average temp of 91 to 92 F for virtually all of the incubation period, and will occasionally hit 93 F for short periods. I have personally measured inter-coil temps with Burmese and Sri Lanka females while maternally incubating and can confirm these temps. It is an adaptation to higher latitude, cooler climate survival. Most burmese eggs are artificially incubated at 90 F and this seems to work well, especially if you are unsure about the accuracy of your temp measurement device. I would not recommend going any cooler than this for burmese. However, definitely make sure that your thermometers are reading accurately.

Kelly

Okay. Thanks everyone for the guidance. Everything is stabilized at this point and looking good.

One non-related question. The female who laid the eggs is still twitching but no longer in a coil. She ate the day after laying (a 9 lbs rabbit). That was Thursday. Is this twitching normal so long after egg laying? I have not seen this in other snakes.

Thanks,
Rick

If the cage wasn't cleaned good enough to remove all scent of the eggs after they were removed it could cause her to do that.

Best wishes!
HH
-----
Due to political correctness run amuck,
this ol' hillbilly is now referred to as an:
Appalachian American

www.natures-signature.com