Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Haha...you know what I mean,,,
For the non believers.........sure the majority of my breeders look like this right now.

It is easy to see that she was ready, she is more than big enough. However the debate on how big snakes have to be is a common topic and the "rule of thumb" type comments are not exactly wrong...but not always right either...check this out.
Look at the size of this very important first time breeding female...her head is the size of the tip of your freakin pinky finger....

Now take a look at her clutch

Sure there are only four...but the thing is they're almost the same size as breeders I have who are closer to 40 inches long with a girth that is twice the size of hers!
I read one article by Frank Retes years back....it wasn't even about snakes. I took his insight and applied to my colubrids and have had numerous successes because of it. You're the man Frank! THANKS!
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

AMEN!
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Stop Tom, You are killing me man.
LMAO....

L8r
Shannon

Give credit where credit is due.

But really it is not about FR or Tom or you. It's about the snakes. By posting this info here over and over again maybe some newbies will get it and use some common sense.FR and Tom are just trying to help what has been a lot of misinformed people over a few decades on proper care and maintence. It's obvious TFH books and many keepers have been doing it wrong for a long time.

So Shannon, are you still cooling your snakes during the winters?
Still reading Feildguide maps from the 1970's?
Still believe that hondurans and other snakes are still pure?
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You guys need to be careful! If not OSHA is going to fine FR for not having a gardrail installed on his backside!!
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

You guys need to be careful! If not OSHA is going to fine FR for not having a gardrail installed on his backside!!

I am not the one yanking on his jockstrap every week.
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LMAO,LMFAO, LMAOROFL, LMFAO and blew D.P. all over my screen! Yep, Tom has it correct, that dog can hunt!
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Todd Hughes

Ouch!!! LOL
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

I answered your three questions yeasterday but the post was pulled for some reason.
Anyway Rainer,

Yes, I still and always will hibernate my stuff for 3-4 months every year.Its really more of a break for me more than anything to do with the snakes.I have no doubt its not a must for the animals but my wife and all my kids like it also that I have a good break and I am able to spend way more time with them.

I really haven't looked at any field guides for a super long time but there is nothing wrong with those old books.For the time it was what we had to go by and I think they did a good job.

As far as hondurans being pure go,just let me say LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats almost as big a joke as the whole florida/brooksi thing.They are what they are and thats a hobby honduran or hondo.You will never see me list any of mine ever as pure or as a hondurensis cause that they aren't.

L8r
Shannon

don't ruin my post

this forum is mostly regurgitated nonsense, I just come here for the pics...
YOU yourself posted a Cal King that was tiny and ovulating or gravid last season didn't you? Just showing people who refuse to believe that things like that happen, can and do happen...
Tom
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TomsSnakes.com

I just look at it for the articles Tom.LOL...WAIT! thats another story.

Lighten up dude, you know my humor and you should know I meant nothing by it at all.I bust Tea Baggs Sacks the same way from time to time as he does me.
Its all god man, and yes I found a gravid cal king last year that I would have never dreamed of breeding.She was maybe 20 inches at best and she laid five perfect eggs.

Anyway, have a cold one a chill out brother.

L8r
Shannon

Love you man, and I am not jokin.... partyin at Daytona is not the same without you,,,,you should come out
and bring Frank
Tom
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TomsSnakes.com

That would be a gas man,I really miss going out there and there is a chance I will make it this year but not 100% sure.
Time will tell,

L8r Shannon

Whoa Tom- you sure those things didn't come out of YOU???

Very nice!

//Todd

Your the man, you did the work, I may have been an inspiration or something.

As you understand, snakes(reptiles) have a reproductive "potential". Which means they have a wide range of abilities to fit many different conditions. Nature is far from consistant.

Anyway, what you read was most likely about varanids, and my work with varanids was based on pythons, which was heavily based on kingsnakes.

So yes, you did the work, wait, you provided support for your wonderful snakes to do what they "know" how to do. Congrats for supporting your animals. Cheers

"As you understand, snakes(reptiles) have a reproductive "potential". Which means they have a wide range of abilities to fit many different conditions. Nature is far from consistant."

Amen to that! One thing I've learned is that if they are ready they are ready.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

Thanks Frank.
It was an article in Reptiles Mag. One of things I believe you said...was caloric intake equals egg production or something like that....which I took as feed your snakes a lot...which seems to be a controversial subject on here. Then again what ISN'T looked at as reason for heated debate on here haha?
I have a lot of friends on this forum and try to keep myself interested in things discussed on here but for the most part I am just posting pics. I get annoyed too easily, so it's probably for the best.
I just got some Spotted Python eggs, other than those looks like I am striking out again with the Womas...
That's OK, I seem to have things pretty good with colubrids and I really enjoy working with them
So again......any chance you're coming to Daytona this year?
Tom Stevens
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TomsSnakes.com

Womas are easy, let them have cool temps(55F) in the winter, with a nice hot spot of 100F and they will copulate in the winter and lay in the spring.

They also successfully produce at 18 months without a problem(for us)

Good luck and have fun.

In order for reptiles to succeed with using energy(calories) when must have a full usable range of temps. Cheers

But are you going to Daytona??!!
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Todd Hughes

Hi, Its a possibility. The problem is, its during the hot HUMID time of year here, and my mice hate humid. So its normally a time i have to keep nearby.

It would be fun, besides, I have a tradition to continue. A late night skinny dipping(drunk) with a couple(actually more) of hot chicks. OK, I don't get totally naked, as those hot chicks duct tape my underwear on. Just in case a wave hits me or something. One night we did that and we found baby sea turtles. Or at least thats what I called them. hahahahahahahahaha. I would be fun. Cheers

Tom,
This sort of blows my image of what really comprises an "adult snake". As an example, Conant gives the average length for adult Florida kingsnakes as 36" to 45". Well, if you got them reproducing in captivity at 20" or so, I damn well bet they are reproducing in the wild at comparable lengths. So, if you define an adult snake as a snake capable of reproduction, are they adults at 20"? Interesting stuff.

This sort of blows my image of what really comprises an "adult snake". As an example, Conant gives the average length for adult Florida kingsnakes as 36" to 45".

That was part of my point i mentioned to Shannon above. Field guides are way outdated and the maps are to.

Look at it this way... If a female ovulates and a male develop sperm they are ready to breed and are adults. But they still have to be 36" to legally drink.
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I think you have it reversed.

This incident doesn't define a new capability. They have been producing in nature at 20 inches (or whatever size they can ovulate) when the environmental conditions are there to support that capability. The snakes have always had that capability given the right conditions and availability of food.
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Mark

They have always had this capability, and at least some within a given wild population must breed at a remarkably small size. I learned (back in the day) that snakes eat sporadically and only when they happen upon the occassional food item. That is why I used to think that wild populations on average grew slowly and did not reproduce until they were "adults". Maybe that is why hobbyists/breeders are often proponents of feeding weekly, bi-weekly or whatever. How often do you read care sheets (or whatever) that warn against "powerfeeding"?

I now think that wild populations of snakes, and especially kingsnakes, eat like there is no tomorrow. These animals are really good at finding food and they eat very frequently, maybe daily, maybe more. And they grow very quickly and they reproduce at (to me) remarkably small sizes.

That speckled female is nice, Tom! Congrats on your clutch!
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0.1 Banded California kingsnake - Zorro
1.0 Betta fish - Billy
0.0.3 White Cloud Fish
1.0 RES - Chopstick
0.1 Australian Shepherd - Jet
0.1 Domestic Shorthair Mix Cat - Pirate