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I have read a few accounts of possible parthenogenesis in boas, and I think I may have one more. I breed a Jungle to a Jungle het albino. Both have bread before. The male was bred to an albino last year and produced no albinos, so I’m pretty sure he’s not het. The het albino female was bred to a non-het last year, it was her first year with a male, 26 babies, no albinos. This year, there was a lone albino Super Jungle produced. There were other babies; normals, Jungles and Super Jungles, but only one albino, and it was a Super Jungle. Unfortunately, it was still born. I was there for the birthing. It was fully developed, looked great, but it simply never took a breath. But I found it very odd that a non-het albino Jungle bred to a het albino Jungle would produce one albino, and it’d be a super.

Mark
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uncommonboa.com

both have bred before, I don't actually bread my boas, i don't think they'd like the flour....
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uncommonboa.com

You can easily pop a baby Boa especially a dead one so long as it isn't stiff. If it is a female, that possibility would still be there. If it's a boy, then you'll need some other unknown explanation. Also, if you contact Dr. Warren Booth, you can get him samples of some sort and I believe he can do the genetic test to prove if in fact you have a clone or not. It may be as simple as a shed skin. I believe if it is proven, that would be the first instance of that proven in a Boa Constrictor.

Have fun!
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

Heya Jeff,

I didn't sex it. It happened a few weeks ago, I just got around to writing about it. It is still in the freezer, so unless it's a problem that it's been frozen, it is available for inspection or tissue samples, or whatever. If it is of interest to Dr. Booth, I'd gladly make it availalbe to him. I don't know him, but I can probably find his contact info online somewhere. It could be interesting to know.

Thanks again!

Mark
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uncommonboa.com

I you think the whole litter has been produced by pathogenosis, they should ALL be the same sex, sometimes female, but I know Komodo Dragons produced in UK by pathogensis where ALL males, is all very interesting, if the female had been mated last season is it not more likely he has dome some sort of sperm retention or diapause?

She mated last season, but also not with a male het for albino, a normal jungle. She had 26 babies last year, and no albinos. I expected that same this year, from a different male, and except for the one albino super, all was as expected. It just seems likely if either male had been carrying the albino gene, I'd have had more than one albino out of two breedings. And the "father" had to be a jungle, since the one albino produced was a super jungle.

It's interesting...

Thanks for your input!

Mark
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uncommonboa.com

Oops. I am a dope. I'm surprised that nobody pointed it out. Mark, if parthenogenesis occurred the baby(s) produced via parthenogenesis would be exact replicas of Mom. Clearly the Albino Super Jungle is not a clone of Mom regardless of the sex. So it's back to the drawing board. It does appear that at least one of the males that has been in with that female, must be a Het. That's the only logical explanation for where that Albino came from other than just a spontaneous freak of nature. That is certainly possible but parthenogenesis? no.
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Jeff Ronne Sr
The Boaphile
Director USARK

Originator of Boaphile Plastics
The Boaphile Boa Site

Wow...even more odd. Thanks for the info. I don't really know much about parthenogenesis. I guess one of the males could be carrying a stray gene for albinism, and I just had a really lousy split! Although both males have bred albinos in the past and produced offspring, none of which were albino... Maybe it was just one of those fluke things. I guess I'll never know what happened and have to learn to live with the mystery!

Thanks again!

Mark
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uncommonboa.com

Maybe Parthenogenesis isn't the correct term for what happened but this is not the first time I have heard of one or all of a litter coming out as if the mother was bred by a male with the same genetics as she had. There may not be enough examples of this to rule out any other possibilities but I remember a few cases that make me think that there is something other than sperm retention going on.
Jeff, remember last year when someone posted about a female Motley(first time being introduced to a male) that was bred by a non-Motley male and had a litter of normals, Motleys, and Super Motleys? I can name a few more similar scenarios. It makes me wonder if this happens a lot since the only time we know something is different is when an oddball pops up. The odds of a Super Jungle Albino being present in a DH x DH breeding is 1/16. Could a large part of the Jungles and normals in the litter not have been sired by the male?
Any thoughts?

Thanks for the input Kyle. She was only with 2 males in 2 years (actually, the 07-08 season was her first, so she's only been with 2 males period). Both males were "het for nuthin" jungles, or so I believe. I bred one of the males to an albino last year and one to the female het albino jungle. This year, I swtiched them. So 2 male jungles successfully bred an albino and a jungle het albino alternately in 2 years. Out of 4 litters (2 each year), there has only been 1 albino, the still born super jungle from the jungle het albino female this year.

It's a quandry for sure...

Thanks for your thoughts!

Mark
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uncommonboa.com

There can be males produced from a process that is known as automatic parthenogenesis(AP), and is explained very well in the link below.

I believe that parthenogenesis happens in boas a LOT more than most may think. I also believe that AP could produce a genetically homozygous offspring of a specific trait like jungle and/or albino from a heterozygous female.

Statistically it seem much more likely to me than the odds of one albino from 4 litters..... although, the odds sometimes fall that way.

Great thread!

automatic parthenogenesis

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Jesse Van Atta

"Continuing to cling to the patterns you know, inhibits your ability to discover what you don't know." - Eric Allenbaugh

have to be a clone. In parthenogenesis the mother provides the genes for both sides of genetic material. If she is an albino then yes all the babies would be albino because that is all the genetic material she has to provide but if the mom is a het albino you would see a mix of normals possible het albino and albinos. The same as you would see when breeding a pair of hets together. Basically the outcome would be the same as if you breed a pair of boas with the exact same genetics to each other.