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Snakes and learning

FR May 04, 2009 12:44 PM

In a conversation way down below, a biologist stated that snakes do not have the brain capacity to learn. That was in context to giving them choices in captivity. He stated, why give them choices, they do not make them.

But nevermind that. My experience with captives is that they not only learn, but are very good at learning. To a point of knowing my patterns(better then I) They seem to know when I am going to feed them. Etc etc.

But again, thats not actually the point of this post.

I also work with reptiles in the field. In most cases, they learn to avoid us. Or at least try. But other then that, we try to not alter their behaviors.

We do wonder how they know how to utilize their entire range. You know, go here in the winter, there in the spring, somewhere else when it rains hard, or where to go when its dry. As well as how they know where and when to find food. They do appear to find prey, without problem. Often utilizing different prey types.

But again, not the actual subject of this post.

This post is about wild snakes that live on my property. There are a number of them that "learn" to feed at the same place, year in and year out. They go to certain "learned" places when they are hungry.

Not only do they return to these places, but they also seem to learn about me, a-friggin-gain. This Black coachwhip is on its second year feeding(begging food) It seems to know when to pop up and when not too. It will wait for me, or pop up after I open the facility door. Once it senses the door opening, it will not retreat or run, even if my dog is with me. It first started to feed off tongs, now it takes food from my hands. I hope one day to have it climb up my legs for food. Mind you, a coachwhip, which are very wary snakes.

This diamondback is on its third year of feeding at the exact same spot. It shares that spot with another diamondback thats on its fifth year of feeding there. Both recognize me, as oppposed to other people. They come to me, and not others. hmmmmmm

I guess what I am asking is, IS THIS NOT LEARNING. As I am not a inherent part of their behavior. In fact, snakes are not known to use other animals to find their prey. Cheers



I do have many more pics, including some from past years.

Replies (17)

charleshanklin May 04, 2009 02:34 PM

Very cool post. I had a black racer that I would feed in my backyard as well but I never did get him to let me get that close.

If reptiles weren't smart enough to figure things out, than why is that alligators get used to people feeding them and come to people? That's why its illegal to do so.
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If con is the opposite of pro, does that mean congress is the opposite of progress??

Tony D May 04, 2009 04:35 PM

Some would say its conditioning but they would say the same about a dog fetching a stick. To be honest, I'm not sure there is a huge difference between conditioning and learning or if there is I know I don't understand it.
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“Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.” Emmerson

Andres May 04, 2009 06:33 PM

Very nice post! Can you share the other pics?

P.S. You have balls for feeding diamondbacks for 5 years.

FR May 04, 2009 07:16 PM

Ok, today, we did this over again.

Three days ago, it fed of three medium mice, yesterday, it ate one large mouse, one medium mouse, and 4 hoppers. Today, its consumed 4 hoppers and is still looking. Today, we advanced to feeding off my shoes. hahahahahahahahahahahaha(side note) if it keeps feeding like this, I will shoot the dang thing.

Last night the larger rattlesnake came by(tracked it) But I went to bed too early. Maybe tonight, we may go herping and check on it when we get back. Enjoy the pics




How about off the shoe, tomorrow off the shoe and over the knee, all net.

viborero May 04, 2009 07:24 PM

That's friggin' amazing. Thanks for the insight!
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Diego

SWCHR

charleshanklin May 04, 2009 11:11 PM

With as friendly as your getting with him you better be careful peeing outside. You will be really upset if he goes off the shoe and over the knee to grab a certain fuzzy.
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If con is the opposite of pro, does that mean congress is the opposite of progress??

FR May 05, 2009 10:07 AM

Both rattlesnakes were in place and hunting for food, so I fed both one jumbo mouse each. I did get pics and will post them later.

Now I have to go feed snakes as they are calling me. I hope there are not more then a thousand or so, hahahahahahahahahahaha j/k Mouse day. Cheers

Joe Forks May 05, 2009 12:18 PM

The snake whisperer hahahaha

pretty amazing Frank. You learned them snakes good.
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Herp Conservation Unlimited
Mexicana Group Directory
Photography by Joseph E. Forks

kevine May 04, 2009 07:29 PM

Not sure if these snakes know who I am but they are always willing to take a free meal. This one usually stays in the chicken coop and consumes eggs and baby chicks but will occasionally make its way onto the back porch when it wants a mouse. I have found it so full of eggs that it could barely move.


This one usually stays on the back porch and no matter where I put him he will always find his way back onto the porch and into the birdhouse he lives in.

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Kevin Harrell
www.harrellandsonsherps.com

Br8knitOFF May 04, 2009 09:34 PM

Kevine,
That last pic doesn't count- that's cheating!

Open the door to that cage, or make the holes bigger...

//Todd

Br8knitOFF May 04, 2009 09:27 PM

Frank,
I can't tell you how FLIPPIN' cool that is!!!

I have a gulf coast toad, or a couple of them that come back every summer, and wait for me to come out to catch and feed them june bugs all summer. (one of them ate 19 in a row one night, and STILL came back out the next night for more...)

Not NEARLY as cool as the racer, atrox, etc., but I'll take it!

//Todd

zach_whitman May 04, 2009 11:07 PM

When I was younger I once let a friend hold a completely tame kingsnake. He got scared and dropped it as soon as it touched his hands.

This snake had literally never bitten anyone. But two weeks later this kid sacked up to try again. As I went to hand him the snake, the king lunged at his face! Never done anything like that before or since. I don't think that dude will ever go near a snake again. HAHAHAHA. But that snake sure remembered him.

Animal intelligence is just completely different from our own. Just because a bird can go bury 10,000 nuts in the woods, and find most of them by memory that winter, doesn't make him smarter than a person. But dang if I could do anything like that.

great post frank. I will die laughing when I see you with that racer eating a mouse sitting on your shoulder.

antelope May 05, 2009 08:33 AM

Those are very cool observances, I really like the look of the coachwhips out there, I thought they were all red or brown! Yep, the snakes know where and when to get food, but if you tried to catch them, I am sure they would remember that and the experiences would differ. I wonder if they would wait a few days and come back, especially after being fed this way for so long. I wouldn't do it for fear of losing a special intimacy but I would be very curious to know what the snake would choose to do.
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Todd Hughes

Bluerosy May 05, 2009 08:48 AM

I wonder if they would wait a few days and come back, especially after being fed this way for so long. I wouldn't do it for fear of losing a special intimacy but I would be very curious to know what the snake would choose to do.

I wonder too.

I guess after the snake crawls up your shoulder to take food, that would be the next step.

Interesting stuff!!!
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Signature edited

monklet May 05, 2009 09:55 AM

Thanks guys for the fascinating stories. Don't have any tame wild ones but my E. Hog is learning to beg and come for food. He was doing it last night, raised up coming right at me and my camera died (I know, likely story). After reading this thread, I'll start working harder on that and try it with some of my other snakes.

JYohe May 05, 2009 07:12 PM

they sure do learn

I feed alot of my small/smaller snakes in cups or containers so they don't have to eat shavings, and so the mice,fuzz,pinks etc don't wander all over the box and maybe get burried or lost under stuff, then stink...

they know the feed cup and wait in it if they are hungry

they also wait in the water bowl if it is empty

that's thought...forethought....we don't get that till we are 2....

they also know what to eat at different times of the year...even in my room....peromyscus or hamsters in spring then summer anything...then again fall they may want different stuff...
in the wild they learn where bird houses and feeders are , and come back every year to feed in them....

...etc etc etc...

...they know.......
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CrimsonKing May 05, 2009 10:30 PM

...with my charges....I have to wonder....just who's learning from who? I sometimes think I'm the one being taught to follow their lead ?? I too feed them when they beg!
hahahaha
Great photos and accounts FR.
:Mark
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Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

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