Reptile & Amphibian Forums

There are what look like furballs from a cat scattered all around my savs enclosure. There are probably like over 20 of them scattered all around... Any ideas on what these are? It looks like what is in the poop sometimes but they couldn't have pooped that much in that many places, it happened like overnight.
-----
1.1 Savannah Monitors (Annah & Terrance)
1.1 Nile Monitor (Lyle)
1.0 Timor Monitor (Timmmmaaayy)
1.0 Blood Python (Kevin)
1.0 Ball Python (Martin)
0.1 Leopard Gecko (Bella)
2.0 Bearded Dragons (Peter & Jack)
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake (Hector)
1.1 Kenyan Sand Boas (Wayne & Maude)
1.0 Dwarf Gecko (Little Girl)
1.0 Curly Hair Tarantula (Pube)
1.0 OBT Usumbara Orange Baboon Tarantula (Sin)
1.0 Emperor Scorpion (Ashoka)
2.0 D. auratus (Poison Dart Frogs)
1.0 Peacock Bass (Gary)

infertiles perhaps? throw some pictures up.

Mike.

>>There are what look like furballs from a cat scattered
>>all around my savs enclosure. There are probably like
>>over 20 of them scattered all around... Any ideas on
>>what these are?

The indigestible parts of mice, mostly fur. What they can't digest and can't pass, they hurk back up, much like owls. If you take one apart, you will probably find other mouse parts, like teeth.

Luke

Yeah man but there are like tons of these things scattered everywhere and they just sort of appeared as I said overnight. I am thinking they are something to do with eggs but I don't know enough about that process to jump to that conclusion so I am here to be educated. Note that the female (I do have what I think is a pair together in the 8x8 enclosure) laid a clutch of eggs (actual eggs, not furballs lol) this January. Like I said, I don't know enough about it yet but is there some correlation between the real eggs coming first then the unfertilized? I thought it was the other way around usually, but I do not know. Another note, the 'real eggs' went bad after 2 weeks of incubation (bad meaning smelling like a dogs butt and sagging in).

Thanks,

Dan

Oh here are the pics:

The Female:

The Male:



-----
1.1 Savannah Monitors (Annah & Terrance)
1.1 Nile Monitor (Lyle)
1.0 Timor Monitor (Timmmmaaayy)
1.0 Blood Python (Kevin)
1.0 Ball Python (Martin)
0.1 Leopard Gecko (Bella)
2.0 Bearded Dragons (Peter & Jack)
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake (Hector)
1.1 Kenyan Sand Boas (Wayne & Maude)
1.0 Dwarf Gecko (Little Girl)
1.0 Curly Hair Tarantula (Pube)
1.0 OBT Usumbara Orange Baboon Tarantula (Sin)
1.0 Emperor Scorpion (Ashoka)
2.0 D. auratus (Poison Dart Frogs)
1.0 Peacock Bass (Gary)

>>Yeah man but there are like tons of these things
>>scattered everywhere and they just sort of appeared
>>as I said overnight. I am thinking they are something
>>to do with eggs but I don't know enough about that
>>process to jump to that conclusion so I am here to
>>be educated.

Well, pull one apart and see. If it is coughed up mouse remains, you'll probably find teeth and maybe bones. If eggs, you will find a tough eggshell. If something else - well, your exploration could give you clues.

Luke

"Hurk back up", like owl pellets?
How come we don't hear much or see much about that? I thought they were able to digest 'everything'?

Could the fact there are so many, be a sign of something serious?

>>"Hurk back up", like owl pellets?
>>How come we don't hear much or see much about that?

I dunno. I've certainly seen my monitors cough up hairballs, and I've read about it in the literature.

>>I thought they were able to digest 'everything'?

Hair is always indigestible. I imagine tooth enamel is also going to resist digestive juices. Maybe bone can be digested - some critters might be able to break down the collagen bindings and blood vessels and absorb the minerals released. Still, there are things a monitor can't process, so it will either need to regurgitate them or pass them out the other end.

>>Could the fact there are so many, be a sign of
>>something serious?

Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps they've been around for a while but after the OP noticed the first one, he started looking and saw the rest. Maybe the monitor had been saving them up for a while and coughed them up all at once. I don't know.

Luke

[Hair is always indigestible.]

Yes, I meant to say, I thought they could process these things, rather then coughing them up, but I have found one or two suspected 'pellets' during the past 18 mos. I was just wondering if it's a normal thing, or a sign they might not be metabolizing properly.

Thanks for your response and I hope it turns out to be nothing serious.

>>Yes, I meant to say, I thought they could process these
>>things, rather then coughing them up, but I have found
>>one or two suspected 'pellets' during the past 18 mos.
>>I was just wondering if it's a normal thing, or a sign
>>they might not be metabolizing properly.

I don't have my library handy right now, but I seem to remember Auffenberg discussing this in either his monograph on Bengal monitors or Komodo monitors or both. From memory, it is a perfectly normal thing for monitors to do and occurs frequently with both wild and captive animals. If anyone has evidence that this is a pathological behavior, I'd be interested in hearing about it.

Luke

[From memory, it is a perfectly normal thing for monitors to do and occurs frequently with both wild and captive animals.]

Interesting.
It's just that, in the 18mos I've owned my Albigs, and been visiting the forum, I haven't heard much about it, or seen much evidence it occurs frequently. I've fed a primarily rodent diet, with birds.

If it's perfectly normal and occurs frequently, why aren't all the new owners (myself included) posting questions about finding them and asking what they are?
I tend to take notice of 'everything' about my guys and this isn't something they do, normally. Could it be building up inside?

Yeah I have had mine for almost three years and I have never noticed this (well I have noticed it in their poo before) but i have never seen it this much and everywhere!
-----
1.1 Savannah Monitors (Annah & Terrance)
1.1 Nile Monitor (Lyle)
1.0 Timor Monitor (Timmmmaaayy)
1.0 Blood Python (Kevin)
1.0 Ball Python (Martin)
0.1 Leopard Gecko (Bella)
2.0 Bearded Dragons (Peter & Jack)
1.0 Mexican Black Kingsnake (Hector)
1.1 Kenyan Sand Boas (Wayne & Maude)
1.0 Dwarf Gecko (Little Girl)
1.0 Curly Hair Tarantula (Pube)
1.0 OBT Usumbara Orange Baboon Tarantula (Sin)
1.0 Emperor Scorpion (Ashoka)
2.0 D. auratus (Poison Dart Frogs)
1.0 Peacock Bass (Gary)

>>Interesting.
>>It's just that, in the 18mos I've owned my Albigs, and been
>>visiting the forum, I haven't heard much about it, or seen
>>much evidence it occurs frequently. I've fed a primarily
>>rodent diet, with birds.

Albigs are sweet monitors, congrats!

>>If it's perfectly normal and occurs frequently, why aren't
>>all the new owners (myself included) posting questions
>>about finding them and asking what they are?

I dunno. Maybe people just don't notice it all that much. It seems to be less frequent and less obvious than other behaviors like defecation or shedding.

>>I tend to take notice of 'everything' about my guys and
>>this isn't something they do, normally. Could it be
>>building up inside?

Maybe. You might search around the enclosure to see if you can find any dried up balls of hair and/or feathers. With my arguses, they tended to be about the same size as my thumb, I don't know how big they would be with albigs. They are not always obvious, but if you know what to look for you might find them.

Another similar thing you might look for - shed teeth. You might not find these as much for the African monitors, since I've heard they stop shedding some, perhaps all, of their teeth when they reach maturity. However, many species do replace their teeth regularly and you can find them if you keep an eye out for them. They are small and hard to see, however. The old teeth often break off during feeding, so sorting through regurgitated gastric pellets or feces might be the best way to find them.

Luke

Everything comes out the back of my monitors.

I keep close attention to them, and I do not find feathers or fur for the most part, there can be traces of it, but by no means does the ruffage that goes in come out just the same.

People that notice other issues such as constant regurging or a strong presance of ruffage in their lizards stool may want to examine some husbandry related issues. My lizards are kept hot and offered choices and for that, they reward me with some fantastic looking poo.

However what is normal for me isn't normal for others and vice versa everything is based on peoples and lizards individuality.

PS I bet my lizards could digest nails!!! Fur/Feathers......pfffffft please.

Cheers!
Mike.

Again-Interesting, but not surprising. I would however, be surprised if a host of people suddenly stated they find these 'gastric pellets' frequently, but like I said, I did find one or two maybe, in the past 18 mos.

Yes Luke, Albigs are too sweet and I'd best not get started on that, as I do tend to go on about my babies!)

Oh, what the heck-