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snakes and our turn to learn

FR May 08, 2009 12:54 PM

Yesterday, the coachwhip came out in the mourning, then disappeared for the rest of the day. Remember, she fed five days in a row.

Today, I noticed she had company, the same "other" coachwhip that was with her last FALL. They were together until they stopped coming out. Well to make a long story short, its a pair, as I saw them copulating, right on the sidewalk, out in the open, the problem was my camera was in the house. So I ran and got it. It missed the money shot, but I did get them courting or copping, I could not see their tails. I will post pics later. They came out great.

Also the rattlesnake was feeding again last night. Cheers

Replies (15)

FRoberts May 08, 2009 03:30 PM

Very interesting stuff, I would love to see those pic's. Plus the meals you gave her looks like their going towards her goals.
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

JKruse May 09, 2009 12:51 AM

Hi Frank.....

all this is very cool....yeah....there were times I came home from a fishing trip and wish I had a cute lil garter snake tugging at my pants for a slab o' bluefish......but at the end of the day (unless this is for scientific purpose) isnt this really skewing the natural behavior of these animals?

I'm not saying this will be passed on generationally, but doesnt this make for a really unusual set of conditions for these animals that would otherwise not typically be offered hand-outs in their "natural" settings? It's like me having a fence swift on a leash several paces away from a rock outcrop awaiting a zonata to approach.......what's the point? We know that various snake species have greater intelligence such as coachwhips and indigo snakes, et al, and thus can possibly overcome fear of human presence by the overriding basic instinct of hunger coupled with the utter ease of prey availability that you've created. Okayyyyy.....aaaaand? It's cool and all, but I just don't see where the professorship thing fits with all of it. What's the lesson in this case?
Personally I like the old conversations about captive conditions and figuring out how to make one end of an enclosure 55F and the other 110F and making stacks and all that jazz....


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Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Bluerosy May 09, 2009 09:24 AM

Man I am going to get some zonata this year just so i can set up a stack like that.
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Signature edited

JKruse May 09, 2009 09:48 AM

I'm going to get some $50 peanut butter and jelly brooksi quadruple het for everything and use the stacks with 'em......and make sandwiches......HAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA.....
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Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

FR May 09, 2009 09:58 AM

Hi, First, there does not have to be a lesson for you. So don't look for one if you do not see one. This is only about observation.

I do field work with snakes, in all cases, field methods are highly intrusive. That is, we totally interfere. We(99% of field studies) manipulate in a direct physical manner. We poke, prod, operate, move, palpate and install radios and whatnot in them, then put them back and write what they do as normal. The information taken is called normal(natural). In a sense it is, its normal for an animal with human forced interactions. In this case, we use an attraction, to draw the animals to us, and not chase them. So we get to see really cool things.

An example of what happened is, this individual the female) left for a part of a day and brought back her mate. The same individual that was with here in the fall. Hmmmmmmmm consider, there are many coachwhips living right here. Even in that same hole. But no, she attracts the same male. I find that interesting. Also, that male is very similar to her, hmmmmmmmm same basic color, and same basic size. They appear to be first year breeders, as they were subadults last fall. Hmmmmmmmmmmmm. This is something we consistantly see. you know, matched pairs. Not sure what to make of it, but will keep looking.

About the snake crawling on me, that is to gain trust. So I can watch what they are doing without them running away, so far, IT WORKED. As I could get close to them without them. running for their lives. How many coachwhips let you walk up to them?????

Sir, there is so much more, but I think you need to think about this first. Consider you do not have to care about any of this. As its not for you. Unless its of interest to you. By the way, the information about your cage stuff is here. As they without question are active at certain times and temps and use certain places and conditions. All you have to do is ask. Consider, the key to observation is to ask the right questions, not to just see. Cheers

That information is written in a scientific manner, and YOU READ IT AND YOU BELIEVE IT. You believe it, because thats how its done. Yet those methods have noting to do with the animals we study. Those methods are totally based on what HAS been done and how to gather as much data in the shortest amount of time without concern for the animal.

With behavior(ethlogy) you have two basic traits, to attract and to repell. This is what animals do. The standard method of study is to repell the animals. In this case, I am attracting these snakes.

By feeding them, that is a natural behavior(to feed) They use a natural behavior, to include a food source in their range of behaviors. The lesson is, if you do not repell them, and attract them, you may get lucky and see "other" natural behaviors.

The problem is, we know very little about how any snake lives. How they associate with others of their same species, how they pair, if they bond. Yet, when I do not interfere, we see some strange things. Like what I am REPORTING.

FR May 09, 2009 10:00 AM

Put the cheers at the end and move the bottom paragraphs up. hahahahahahaha to early did not finish my coffee yet. Cheers again

monklet May 09, 2009 10:06 AM

...it's all good! Love the interaction and I do believe there is a lot to be learned and enjoyed. Just take it for what it is.

joecop May 09, 2009 10:25 AM

Hey Jerry, that snake has a photo session fee with it! Ha Ha ha.

antelope May 10, 2009 03:39 AM

Jerry, the coaches live under his house for Chris'sake! They are teaching him to bring food, not the other way around, lol!
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Todd Hughes

FR May 09, 2009 11:25 AM

Heres the pics. I missed the best shot, thats why I am not a good photographer, I do not carry my camera at all times. Dang it.



Later in the evening, I was digging up monitor eggs and the female crawled by. That was about 40 meters from where she has been.

Also last night, the smaller of the two rattlesnakes fed, twice. He has a shed stuck over his rattles, its kinda funny to see wild snakes have captive problems. Cheers

Bluerosy May 09, 2009 12:14 PM

Frickin awesome!
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Signature edited

FR May 09, 2009 01:09 PM

A few minutes ago, a third Black coachwhip(male?) was at the hole. It came from a AC pile across the dirt road from my building. I tracked it. It fed twice then headed back towards that AC pile.

What is so funny is, how stinking many of these are here. And why do I rarely see them. Normally we see a couple a year. Until you attract them, then theres a bunch. Whats the deal, you feed one, then they bring their friends??????? Just like kids!

ALso, why are these black ones, when normally we see all colors of them. In fact, the black coachwhips seem to be the minority in my property and in this area.

Oh well, to many questions. Cheers

CFlowers May 09, 2009 06:56 PM

I love coachwhips but never owned any...how about ya send me one of those tame ones?!?!?!

antelope May 10, 2009 03:45 AM

That's what I was wondering too, what's with the black ones? Very neat change from the all brown or red headed ones I see down my way!
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Todd Hughes

Br8knitOFF May 10, 2009 03:29 PM

Guys,
In light of all the new and very exiting interaction Frank is having with his neighbors, I'm starting a 'Help Feed Frank's Adoptee's' fund raiser for mice.

Just when you think he's on to something, Antelope reveals what's REALLY going on over there... WHO is training WHO?!?! That was great, Toddy!

//Todd

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