Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I keep two Russians in an outside pen full time with adequate sunlight. I just got the Russian Tortoise book by E.J. Pirog.

In it, the author states at least three time that calcium is important whether you keep them indoors or out. However, when keeping them outside with adequate sunlight, adding vitamin D to their diet can cause serious issues.

The author then states that when keeping Russians outdoors, the brand name calcium supplement Centrum is their favorite to use. However after doing some research, I discovered that ALL Centrum calcium supplements contain vitamin D. To that, they all also contain many other ingredients, rather than just calcium carbonate.

Is this safe?

Should I be doing this?

The author went into great detail three times detailing the chemical and biological processes of calcium absorbtion, and yet contradicted themselves when it came down to the most imortant fact:

What calcium supplement is safe to use when housing outdoors in adequate sunlight?

I am aware that there are several "reptile specific" concoctions available on the market, but those are nothing but overpriced, well marketed version of over the counter human supplements.

Until I get some other opinions from this site, I will continue scraping cuttlebone over their food.

When I keep my russians outdoors, I leave chunks of cuttlebone out for them. I'll also scrape a little over their food.

You can find plain calcium powder without vitamin D. I think RepCal makes some.

You can also find calcium powder at a brewing supply store.

Also consider this: there is calcium which has been produced organically by other living organisms and then ground into a powder, such as the ground up oyster shells called Rep-Cal (or the cuttlebone mentioned above), and then there is calcium produced by artificial means in a lab from a bunch of chemicals, such as the pure white powders or tablets one can buy in a jar.

I personally prefer to think that the organically produced sources of calcium are more readily metabolized and better utilized by my tortoises and therefore are superior in benefit to those which are chemically produced, whether those preparations may be deemed fit for human consumption by the FDA or not.

This is just my opinion after 40 plus years of raising and breeding turtles, tortoises, snakes, and many other animals. There is no scientific proof that there is any difference, but it makes me feel better to think so, and if it is truly correct, so much the better.

I've allways wondered about the "added Vit D" Why is it dangerous? Doesn't it have to be matabelised by the animals system from Sun light.How do they put that in a bottle? Vic

I always used the calcium with D3 added to my smaller torts diets with no side effects even when outside full time only because most smaller tortoises dont spend much time basking in the mid-day sun. As they get bigger and spend more time basking I switch them over to plain calcium. Some will debate this, but it works for me.

If you're worried about VitD overdose, just use the stuff without. Repcal makes it or you can use regular calcium carbonate supplement. There's always been some controversy whether or not tortoises can absorb d3 through their gut so full spectrum lighting is best because we know they can absorb it through their skin. Vitamin D toxicity is bad. Not only can they become physically "ill" it can cause over calcification which is NON reversible.

Well I guess that gets back to my original question: where can you get a simple powdered calcium carbonate supplement without added d?

I'd prefer to stay away from "reptile" branded products, as they typically take off the shelf ingredients, throw a "reptile" type marketing campaign on it and mark it up 500% compared to the off the shelf variety.

You can get pure calcium carbonate at any health food store. Just make sure its just calcium carbonate powder, no additives.

Or, as I mentioned in my post, you can get calcium carbonate powder from a brewing supply store.

Here's a source for $3.95 a pound. I wonder how that compare's to a health food store?

Link

EXCELLENT!
THAT was exactly what I was looking to get out of this post.
Thanks all!

>>Well I guess that gets back to my original question: where can you get a simple powdered calcium carbonate supplement without added d?
Boil a chicken eggs.Peel said egg. Eat said egg. Give eggshells to tortoises. Micro-nutrients included. Vit D excluded.
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AMAZON REPTILE CENTER

I use oyster flour, which is simply finely ground up oyster shell. I put out piles of it and they eat it, also sprinkle on food frequently. Very cheap to buy, 50lbs. for about $7.00 at feed and grain stores in California. A buy product of the aqualculture oyster industry here. Also adult tortoises wil eat the regular oyster shell produced for poultry. I use egg shells too, getting them in quantity at "pan cake breakfasts" etc. Wash'em and dry'em in the Sun. I am going to check out Bradtorts suggestion on the brewer supply Ca. Cuttle bone is great, but often must weather in the yard for weeks before they eat it. I am told but have not been successful in finding food grade ground limestone/Calcium carbonate is available, very cheap in quantity, used in the baking industry. My herd seems to do well on the oyster shell and egg shells. My herd is outside in one of the sunniest places on earth, so I don't add D3. Good luck,Vic H.

I believe that Rep-Cal is made of ground up oyster shells also. I think that a "naturally produced" source like the oyster shells is better for the animals than chemically produced calcium carbonate.