Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I had an awesome opportunity...at least, IMO.
On my way back from work in the California Bay Area I stopped by to pick up these female thayeri from David Weymouth in Utah, along with some other necessary equipment for the new snake room.
I am also trying to learn how to use my new camera...these are somewhat decent pics.

This first female is of Louis Torres Stock (LMT2005G04)

This female is the daughter of Ole Yeller. The only intermediate David ever produced...A nice one in my opinion...Her head looks just like Ole Yeller's (LMT2004A01)

This MSP is the sibling sister to Sharktooth (Daughter of Ole Yeller as well) - (LMT2003A02)

And finally....here is the "Anery Thayeri" from pure Louis Torres Stock. IMHO I believe it to be Hypo-Erytheristic rather than Anery. The saddles are Salmon in color. Which is reduced red pigment not lack there of....


-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

Hi John. Looks like you picked up some real beauties with great genetics! Congratulations and best wishes for some wonderful clutches from those girls in the future. The photos are good -- I have found that the biggest challenge is getting a sharp focus where I want it when the ambient light is not bright. I lucked out for the head shot below (probably 1 out of 15 tries).

Tom Corley

>>Hi John. Looks like you picked up some real beauties with great genetics! Congratulations and best wishes for some wonderful clutches from those girls in the future. The photos are good -- I have found that the biggest challenge is getting a sharp focus where I want it when the ambient light is not bright. I lucked out for the head shot below (probably 1 out of 15 tries).
>>
>>Tom Corley
>>

Thanks Tom for the compliment and the pic tip.....
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

VERY NICE my friend

>>VERY NICE my friend
>>
>>
>>

Thank you Chris....
Would love to have on of Ole Yeller's male offspring......
Great bloodlines you got there as well.
Good luck with all the eggs you got this season.....
Let us know what emerges....
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

been a busy boy then, eh, John?!! Lookin' good!
-----
Todd Hughes

>>been a busy boy then, eh, John?!! Lookin' good!

Yep....The snake room will be presentable next week. I will give you a call to see if you wanna check it out.
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

Of course!!!
-----
Todd Hughes

Nice looking animals you picked up.
-----
Aubrey Ross

©
www.SlipstreamSerpents.com

>>Nice looking animals you picked up.
>>-----
>>Aubrey Ross

Thanks Aubrey,
Hope to produce some offspring next year. It has been a long time (5 years) since Thayeri hatched over here....I can't wait to see all those grey noses pipping out of their eggs.
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

Hi John, great looking snakes, I really like that first female, nice colors. Did you wrap up your job in California, or will you be back later on?
Bob Bichler

-----
R.Bichlers Colubrids
http://www.webspawner.com/users/rbichler/index.html

>>Hi John, great looking snakes, I really like that first female, nice colors. Did you wrap up your job in California, or will you be back later on?
>>Bob Bichler
>>
>>

Bob...I sent you an email earlier.
Finished up in Rodeo......I am headed to Louisiana....closer to home.
It was really nice meeting you....
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

John,

Sweet acquisitions! Especially the "rose" hues on #1...My favorite is the last one...Nice double saddle spilts...Looks kind of like the Smith specimen trio from '44...

Not sure I'd go for any "morph" descriptions though...Could just be the natural ontogenetic change with maturity...One of my 2006 females looks nothing like she did a a juvenile. She started off "peach" and is now gray-green with a tan hue and heavy speckling...The red-orange saddles have intenisified around the borders but centers have started "vanishing"...Not sure how far that will progress though...

Any juvenile photos available? Just my 10-cents worth...

Later,
Jim.
-----
CSRAJim

The 'anery' or 'hypo-e' looking female looks just as she did as a juvenile.....
Check out this link and look for the ID#s I posted.....Check out the siblings to the faded female......

http://www.mountainkings.com/available.html

And as for the Hypo-E Mex Mex.....I think it has been proven on the Kingsnake main forum.....check it out too....

Regards,
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

John,

Thanks for the link for juvenile photos...She's truly a beautiful specimen & I wish I had her here in my collection. I still do not buy "Hypo-E" though...

Regarding "Hypo-E" Mex-Mex, yes...I've seen Shannon's specimen and there's something going on there but, I can't remember mentioning anything about Mex-Mex in my post...

No big deal John...Until there is genetic study to ID actual genotpye...We're discussing "opinions" & we will have to agree to disagree...Sorry I even mentioned it.

Later,
Jim.
-----
CSRAJim

>>John,
>>
>>Thanks for the link for juvenile photos...She's truly a beautiful specimen & I wish I had her here in my collection. I still do not buy "Hypo-E" though...
>>
>>Regarding "Hypo-E" Mex-Mex, yes...I've seen Shannon's specimen and there's something going on there but, I can't remember mentioning anything about Mex-Mex in my post...
>>
>>No big deal John...Until there is genetic study to ID actual genotpye...We're discussing "opinions" & we will have to agree to disagree...Sorry I even mentioned it.
>>
>>Later,
>>Jim.
>>-----
>>CSRAJim

I don't buy into it yet either Jim....I am not going to call her Hypo-E...BUT...I will breed her next year and keep all her offspring for another generation of breeding to try and 'prove' it out. If a neonate MSP with pink bands hatch I guess it will be proven (IMO)....I think it is hard to tell with a leonis phase thayeri due to the broad spectrum of saddle colors and the ground color saturation of some saddles (as seen with your splitbanded specimens). A MSP nearly always has red bands though......
Sorry...there I go rambling again....LOL

I wasn't really pushing to call her Hypo-E or Anery....I just wanted some opinions and views from all of you guys here on the forum....
I am not one to argue too much myself as I know opinions always get in the way....

Regards,

-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

John,

No worries man...With my 10-cents worth, I couldn't get me a cup of coffee...Ha! Ha!

Certainly an idea to explore with successive generations...From my limited knowledge of genetics, the phenotype is a reflection of dominant and/or co-dominant genes...Or a match of recessive pairs...

What is not phenotypically evident are "masked" & recessive genes with heterozygous condition-usually. Seeing the parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc helps in this case. Your project is worthwhile but, will probably require years of work to "see" some of the possibilities...Perhaps a lifetime?

In any case, she is certainly a keeper...The nuchal pattern on that juvenile looks like some of the old Vivid stuff...Tim's retired female had an "aberrant" nuchal. Additionally, I know that Sipperly, Rausch, etc (guys-out-west) had some of those nice specimens...The broad, double-saddle splits with the lateral arrow head connecting to the ventral scales...Something that I've seen from the "guys-out-west"...

I acquired these three girls from a breeder at Daytona this past August & acquired a 2006 female two years ago from the same guy...His stock came from Abbott who acquired some specimens from Zuchowski...Who acquired them from the "guys-out-west"...Early 90's I believe...

Later,
Jim.

-----
CSRAJim

>>In any case, she is certainly a keeper...The nuchal pattern on that juvenile looks like some of the old Vivid stuff...Tim's retired female had an "aberrant" nuchal. Additionally, I know that Sipperly, Rausch, etc (guys-out-west) had some of those nice specimens...The broad, double-saddle splits with the lateral arrow head connecting to the ventral scales...Something that I've seen from the "guys-out-west"...
>>

Nice splitband thayeri Jim....I really like those every time I see those pics......
The juvenile in the last pic was a Mex Mex I acquired from Mark Kenderdine 5 years ago....I no longer have her....I was breeding splitbands to black phase back then in hopes to produce a black splitbanded Mex mex....just like the one Bob Hansen has now...lol
I was also on a mission to produce some of those German Granite Mex Mex....I always thought if you kept breeding the splitbands to the splitbands some aberrancies (speckled/granite) would eventually hatch out....
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

John,

Thanks man...I agree and some of my breeding projects in the future will be "phenotype" pairings that will include patterns (head, dorsal & ventral) and VSC similarities...This will take years to do before the opinion goes to 51% as I'm still learning this "stuff".

Later,
Jim.
-----
CSRAJim

John,

Here's the 2006 female...Hope to breed her next year.

Note the same nuchal & broad saddle-splits as the three 2008 specimens...Same genetics.

Later,
Jim.

-----
CSRAJim

>>John,
>>
>>Here's the 2006 female...Hope to breed her next year.
>>
>>Note the same nuchal & broad saddle-splits as the three 2008 specimens...Same genetics.
>>
>>Later,
>>Jim.
Cool Jim....If you check out that MountainKings Link again..Check out the Nuchal marking on the 1998 Louis Torres Sire to my washed out female thayeri.....Kinda the same....
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

>>>>John,
>>>>
>>>>Here's the 2006 female...Hope to breed her next year.
>>>>
>>>>Note the same nuchal & broad saddle-splits as the three 2008 specimens...Same genetics.
>>>>
>>>>Later,
>>>>Jim.
>>Cool Jim....If you check out that MountainKings Link again..Check out the Nuchal marking on the 1998 Louis Torres Sire to my washed out female thayeri.....Kinda the same....

I meant Dam not Sire...Sorry....
-----
John Lassiter

"Poor planning and procrastination on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....."

John,

No worries man...

Yep, I agree...Similar.

Later,
Jim.
-----
CSRAJim