Reptile & Amphibian Forums

bought my beardie in november - has to be at least 7 months old depending on age ta time of purchase - was about 4 inches long - have read everything - been reading this forum since buying him - have all the necessaries - basking, ambient, timer, eats a combination of crickets and mealworms from flukers eating about 100 - 125 a week - will eat 10 -20 - leave the rest twice or 3 times a day then goes to bask and digest - prefers the mealworms - takes greens when offered but very little - has access to uvb - has been at 8 inches long for 2- 3 months - getting a little wider and more mature looking but will not grow - seems healthy, handled several times daily - never tried to bit - just want grow - always poops with little white pee dot on end - JUST WON'T GROW????????????

What's the basking temperature?
What (specific) supplements do you use and how often for each?
What UVB (brand and type)light do you use?
What greens and veggies, etc. do you feed him?
Have the insects been gutloaded/fed a nutritious diet?

(BTW...go easy on the mealworms, they can sometimes lead to impaction.)

basking temp at highest point 110-115 - he typically only goes there after a bath - he usually - hangs out at an area which is about 90 or so
- i use no supplements - i know i should but i havent - uv is an esu brand - i know most people say they stink - 7.5% i believe - he eats mustard greens and crickets are gutloaded - the mealworms come from flukers with the crickets - i don't order them - they just come in there - he will always eat them first - basically, i made some mistakes in his setup and should be doing more in giving care - just having a hard time believing that the fe things i've missed on can stunt his growth that much - have not used a vet - too expensive - have not weighed him - will post a pictrure tonight - thx

Weight and a picture will give a better idea if he is healthy at the size he is act.

Dragons can grow at different rates but 8" snout to tail length for a 8 month old dragon is very small. Most are at that size by 8 weeks. If the dragon is a hybrid between an Inland Bearded dragon and a Rankins (or Lawsons) Bearded dragon, that would explain the current size.

Insufficient calcium in your dragon's diet can explain poor growth rate though usually it causes twitching and soft bones and bone deformities long before it reduces growth, so MBD may not be the issue here...unless your dragon has other symptoms you haven't mentioned besides not growing fast. Shaking, difficulty closing the mouth, jaw looking 'rubbery', unable to stand on all legs even when startled (some dragons will 'lounge' on their stomachs, legs splayed out while basking or resting, but if 'startled' or something catches their interest, they should get to their feet and be very alert)

I also find it odd that your cricket supplier will toss in mealworms with your crickets for free...some cricket suppliers use carrion beetle larvae to help clean up dead crickets...but these don't look anything like mealworms..unless Flukers uses mealworms to do this instead (though this is odd as mealworms are not big carrion eaters compared to say, superworms or other beetle larvae). But if you are getting more mealworms than crickets in your order, I would recommend switching cricket suppliers. Mealworms are actually cheaper than crickets and if they are substituting crickets with mealworms, not worth the money you are paying.

So far though, the basking temps are good though its odd he is in a cooler area all the time...what are you using to measure you basking temps with?

Also, how active is your dragon? Does he eat alot? What sort of substrate do you use? What cage size is he in?

You be surprised how a few things 'wrong' in husbandry can affect a dragon's overall health. If he isn't getting enough calcium then that affects his health greatly, including growth. If there isn't enough blood calcium the body ends up leaching it from the bones and eventually the bones get soft, deformed and the dragon can't grow properly, move about, eat etc. Calcium is also used in more than just bone building, it is also needed for other bodily functions, including muscle control, which can cause muscle weakness and twitching...A fast growing baby needs alot of calcium, if he isn't getting enough it will affect the overall health. Crickets and mealworms alone, even well gutloaded don't have a good balance of calcium/phosphorus hence why dusting them with a calcium supplement is important, especially with young dragons who are not eating alot of greens.

Getting a fecal to a vet isn't expensive...most only charge $25-$45 for a fecal and physical exam. Paying for vet care is one of the expenses every pet owner has to be willing to cover when they take on the responsibility of caring for a pet. Doesn't matter if the pet is a $10 lizard or a $5000 purebred dog.

That aside, there really are only about 4 causes for slow or stunted growth. The number one cause of slow growth or failure to thrive is related to Husbandry and care issues. Fortunately this is also what a pet owner has the most control over. But for us to advise, you do have to tell us as much detail as you can, the more the better.

Parasites is possible and would be the second thing I would look into after husbandry issues. After that its either a physiological reason (ie organ failure, glands not functioning properly, tumor interfering with regular function of something in the body etc) or its genetic in nature, such as a hybrid (Inland/Rankins), too much inbreeding or breeding of many generations of small dragons. Genetics can be ruled out fairly easy by finding out the adult size of parents and the current size of your dragon's siblings...and other clutch siblings. Hybrids often have a distinct look to them in pattern etc, which we can identify visually with a good picture. Also other clutch mates will be similar in size.

Parasites and other physiological reason require vet visits, no way getting around it. (or at least no safe way).
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PHLdyPayne

First off, get rid of the mealworms. Feed gutloaded crickets. Also let us know the details of your setup. 9 times out of 10 the reason a dragon isn't thriving is something to do with husbandry.

Mealworms make poor feeders for bearded dragons, they are mostly undigestible chitin. Crickets have much more 'meat' to them when properly gut loaded. Superworms, silkworms, small hornworms and phoenix worms are also far better feeders to provide (though at the size of your dragon, i would hold off on superworms till he's bigger).

Also, have you taken him to a vet, especially to get a fecal done. A parasite load can greatly reduce what nutrition your dragon can obtain from their diet.

Give us all the details of your setup since you bought the dragon. A picture of your dragon and setup will be useful as well. Also, I am assuming the measurements you gave are for snout to tail tip and not snout to vent. Providing us the weight of your dragon too, will be helpful.
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PHLdyPayne

maybe you got a dwarf beardie. most people pay extra for those. consider yourself fortunate.

np

Yeah I'm with ya there!

Lizards are so dependent on temps and proper lighting. The UV needs to be placed within 12" of the dragon and if it's filtered through a screen, he's not getting much of it. Plus. those linear tubes should be replaced every 6 months.

For proper absorption and metabolism, Calcium and Phosphorous need to be in a proper proportion of approximately 2:1. Insects are higher on phosphorous than calcium which is why we supplement. In the wild, insects would feed on plants that are higher in calcium. Greens (not lettuce) like collard and mustard are higher in calcium and balance out the diet.

Even if the beardie doesn't have calcium deficiency to the point of MBD, it can affect things like activity and appetite which in turn affect growth. Offer him high quality greens every day, first thing in the morning. Then give him gut loaded crickets later in the day. I'd get a new bulb, a 10.0 and hang it inside the cage so he gets unfiltered UV. You don't have to dust his veggies, but dust the crickets with a calcium supplement that does not contain phosphorous.

thx to everyone for your help