Reptile & Amphibian Forums

I purchased a 1.2 het albino trio and this is the first that I have had them together. In this second clutch I produced a little suprise. I've never had a hypo hog or seen one in person but that is the only thing it resembles to me. What do you pro's think? The friend I got this trio from had bred them only one season before and had no such luck.

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Steve Perry
North Idaho.

Looks hypo to me!
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Jenea
Guardian Reptiles

"When your memories are bigger than your dreams, you're headed for the grave" Author unknown

Definitely a hypo. What are the parents? Who did they come from?
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Thank you,
Kevin Rhodes

Looks T-Positive to me.

Couldn't agree more but than again don't most of the "hypos" in our hobby?
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If con is the opposite of pro, does that mean congress is the opposite of progress??

We had a good post about this before. It's just like the misuse of the term Ghost in the ball python market. They call them ghost but they are hypos. In the last couple of years many breeders are posting ghost/hypo. Slowly correcting the misuse of the term that started when the first ones popped out.
We should do the same. If it's a T-positive, call it that. Educate the newbies and buyers when selling your T-positives and let them know that while the trade name has been Hypo, it is really a T-positive.
What I find really interesting about the snake in the post is that the breeders seem to be carrying both genes, T-pos. and T-neg. The other possibility is a Paradox.

Sounds like we think alike. A spade should be called a spade not just whats more convient or more marketable.
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If con is the opposite of pro, does that mean congress is the opposite of progress??

I agree, a spade is a spade, but can we with all certainty confirm that it is a spade?
I won’t pretend to be an expert on genetic mutations or to insinuate that I have a complete understanding of the relationship between a reduction in dark melanin (hypo) or a lack of the enzyme which makes dark melanin, (t-), but I do agree that it is very possible that many of the Hypos in our trade could be t-poss. One thing that I have a problem with is that I have never seen a definition for hypomelanistic that stated how much of a reduction it takes to qualify as a “hypo”. In fact the way I have read some definitions, hypomelanistic and tyrosine positive, have the same meaning. I don’t however believe that they are being called a hypo for any marketing advantage, as a T-poss. would easily hold as much value. Misuse of the term hypo is possible, but the ghost ball is a lot easier to argue as a ghost is the combination of two mutations. It all comes down to the fact that we have to guess based on what is visible. The problem is that there are a lot of variables that we cannot see which can and probably do effect the mutations that we do see.

To answer the other question, my breeders were produced by an albino female, bred to a het male. The breeder purchased the female at a show on the east coast to pair up with the male he already had. He does not remember who he purchased her from and I don’t believe he has ever produced a hypo from her, but I’ll bet he’s now in the market for a hypo or het hypo male. lol

Just my opinion.
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Steve Perry
North Idaho.

When I said markablity I wasn't referring to a price increase but just the name being more common. I think a lot can be said when you look at their eyes.
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If con is the opposite of pro, does that mean congress is the opposite of progress??

>>We had a good post about this before. It's just like the misuse of the term Ghost in the ball python market. They call them ghost but they are hypos. In the last couple of years many breeders are posting ghost/hypo. Slowly correcting the misuse of the term that started when the first ones popped out.
>>We should do the same. If it's a T-positive, call it that. Educate the newbies and buyers when selling your T-positives and let them know that while the trade name has been Hypo, it is really a T-positive.
>>What I find really interesting about the snake in the post is that the breeders seem to be carrying both genes, T-pos. and T-neg. The other possibility is a Paradox.

So, who has actually checked these snakes for where the biochemical pathway has actually been broken? I mean, if you people are so positive it is T , then someone must have confirmed that, right?

THE POINT is that people are so positive you can see chemical pathways with their bare eyes (mine aren't that good), that they say "YOUR name is wrong, but mine is RIGHT" based on nothing more than what you THINK something should look like when matched up with a specific name. It's downright funny. There is NO REAL EVIDENCE than T is a more accurate description of the morph than hypo....other than a subjective idea that it is what some people THINK it should look like without any proof to back up that thought. Funny.

With that said, it is what people call Hypo.....but looks more like what a T morph might look like....but the actual cause is unknown. I prefer hypo since it is the original name. Confusion comes in when names are changed. Who cares if it is a hypo or not (since T isn't confirmed, anyway) if everyone KNOWS what you mean when you say "hypo." That, after all, is the purpose of communication.
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KJUN Snakehaven
Pituophis.net
KJUN.us
Snakemorphs.us

Hey Steve,

I had the same thing happen last season, bred het albino X het albino and the only albino that hatched is super light colored with the T Positive belly.

Thats a sharp looking little hypo, nice to have suprises like that one!

Take Care

Rich

I think you guys need to sell me your breeder het pairs ;O)
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Chris & Alliey
www.bloodyleopard.com
E-mail Us

...that I have either seen the offspring or heard of breeders which hatched the hypos/t pos out of albino/albino het lines.
It may mean that snakes sold as 100% het albinos are actually double hets and the albinos are double morph with one morph hiding the other or are pure albino and het for hypo/t pos. Most all of the ones I have seen appear glossy their whole lives almost like they need to shed. Ventrals have varied from brown to purple. Seems like most clutches hatch only one hypo/t pos, several normals, and several albinos.

any other ideas as to the genetics?

I will have to refrain from saying who all of the breeders are which have hatched these out this and last season. You both and one other breeder post here on the forums, not sure about the other guys.

Good luck

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Thank you,
Kevin Rhodes

I was assuming that these were sold as uknown poss hets or that the breeder was just moving babies and hoping that they were not hets. knowing the approx. age of the female who produced my het alb. trio, and the appox time that the hypo projects were first coming on, I'm guessing that the breeder may not have even known that his animals were het hypo when releasing babies. Otherwise I would think that any breeder would have kept all albino, poss het hypo babies to help with the new project. especially a female.
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Steve Perry
North Idaho.

That was the case with my male, when I contacted the breeder about this he checked his records and the only hypo blood in that line had to have been passed het to het for 2 generations before my male. He hadn't seen any hypos for years in that line so he didn't think that the snake was anything but het for albino. His comment was "congratulations you just hit the snake lottery"

I'm hoping for the same kind of luck with some double het eggs that are due to hatch in about a week.

Take Care

Rich

I have a friend that hatched hypos form an albino and kept a pair, grew them up, and bred them. He hatched an albino from that clutch which would make it a hybino or what ever you want to call a dbl homo hypo/albino. You could not tell the difference between the hypo/albino and a normal albino.
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Boneyardreptiles.com

it's funny you say that because a friend of mine and I were just talking about what they would look like the other day and decided that they would not look good eneogh to make them any better then the normal albino.
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Steve Perry
North Idaho.

I'll try and get a picture of my male posted. He is super light colored so its going to be hard to capture the true color or lack of it.

Steve if you are ever headed thru Billings let me know, I'll buy you lunch and you can see him in person.

Take Care

Rich

>>I have a friend that hatched hypos form an albino and kept a pair, grew them up, and bred them. He hatched an albino from that clutch which would make it a hybino or what ever you want to call a dbl homo hypo/albino. You could not tell the difference between the hypo/albino and a normal albino.
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>>Boneyardreptiles.com

On the other hand, the double PPA and Hypo animals DO have a distinctive look.
KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven
Pituophis.net
KJUN.us
Snakemorphs.us

I've never seen a hypo/ppa.
Do you have a pic?
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Boneyardreptiles.com

This one appears to be more hypo looking. There is another out there that is believed to be double homozygous that has more of a pink pastel look (pictures found in kingsnake.com hognose photo gallery under username "soulluos".

This photo courtesy Michael Price
Snake formerly owned by Richard Evans

South Plains Reptile

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Thank you,
Kevin Rhodes

Reminds me of a gray ghost just not as gray.Richard only ever produced one grayghost ever and it died.
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Archie Bottoms

Not one I can repost (lack of permission top do so). Aaron Sullivan is the (great!) guy you need to talk to.
KJ
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KJUN Snakehaven
Pituophis.net
KJUN.us
Snakemorphs.us

sorry to interupt just a question is this j.b?if it is funny finding you here I also keep W.H(red phase male het albino female tang albino) hit me up pete n.y.c.

I also am hoping for more luck with clutch due three or so weeks
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Steve Perry
North Idaho.

VERY COOL