Reptile & Amphibian Forums

Welcome to kingsnake.com's message board system. Here you may share and discuss information with others about your favorite reptile and amphibian related topics such as care and feeding, caging requirements, permits and licenses, and more. Launched in 1997, the kingsnake.com message board system is one of the oldest and largest systems on the internet.

Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Click for 65% off Shipping with Reptiles 2 You
Click here for Dragon Serpents

Firing back with both barrels!

brhaco May 13, 2009 07:59 AM

Dig this, folks-it's not over by a long shot-

Joint Statement of Defenders of Wildlife, Great Lakes United, Humane Society International, The Humane Society of the United States, International Fund for Animal Welfare, National Audubon Society, National Environmental Coalition on Invasive Species, Natural Areas Association, National Wildlife Refuge Association,
The Nature Conservancy, and Union of Concerned Scientists For the Subcommittee on Insular Affairs, Oceans and Wildlife House Natural Resources Committee
April 23, 2009 on H.R. 669

In Support of H.R. 669, the Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act our organizations, representing millions of constituents across the country, come together in support of H.R. 669, the Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act. We applaud Congresswoman Madeleine Bordallo for her leadership in introducing this bill, and express our appreciation to the 25 current cosponsors.

H.R. 669 is urgently needed because hundreds of millions of nonnative wild animals are imported and traded in the United States every year, with little oversight, despite potential harm to the economy, the environment, public health and safety, and animal welfare. Under the current Lacey Act process, a species can be declared “injurious,” which prohibits imports and interstate commerce, but this process typically takes years and occurs after substantial damage has been done. Once a nonnative species has become
established, removing the animals is extremely costly and may be impossible, and the methods used may be inhumane.

H.R. 669 takes a proactive approach to address these concerns. It will establish a process for evaluating nonnative wildlife species based on scientific information, with public input, to determine if they should be approved or not approved for importation and interstate commerce. This process would take several years to implement, during which time there would be no restrictions on trade, and all stakeholders would have the opportunity to participate in the process.

The legislation addresses the trade in wildlife. Domesticated animals, such as cats, dogs, rabbits, goldfish, horses, and other species added by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service would be exempt from the evaluation process. As a result of these exceptions, much of the pet trade will be unaffected by the bill.

For clarity, we recommend adding domesticated hamsters, gerbils, guinea pigs, ferrets, and other domesticated species common in the pet trade to the list of exempt species in the bill to remove any doubt about whether they would be added later. We emphasize that the list of exempted species does not mean that all non-exempt species will be prohibited under H.R. 669. The non-exempt species will be assessed for risk, and species that are found not to be risky based on the Fish and Wildlife Service’s evaluation will be approved for importation.

H.R. 669 also includes a grandfather provision so that people will know that they can keep their pets, even if the species later gets classified as not approved for importation.

While there will be costs to implement H.R. 669, the costs of not acting would be substantially greater, as cash-strapped communities and natural area managers would have to spend millions of dollars to attempt to control introduced species. If the United States had H.R. 669 in place previously, damaging and costly invasions such as Burmese pythons, red lionfish, northern snakehead fish, and the Gambian rats that caused the 2003 multistate monkeypox outbreak could have been prevented.

Our respective organizations may offer further comments and suggestions. We welcome the opportunity to work with the Subcommittee to improve the bill and move it to passage.

For more information, please contact: Peter T. Jenkins, Director of International Conservation, Defenders of Wildlife, 202-682-9400 or pjenkins@[url ban]
__________________
-----
Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

Replies (8)

jscrick May 13, 2009 10:32 AM

That is some very good information.
jsc
-----
"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

swiss May 13, 2009 05:11 PM

I noticed the date on this document/letter was april 23. Is this a pre hearing letter of support or something brand new?

swiss

brhaco May 13, 2009 05:38 PM

It's both-they added the paragraph about exempting hamsters, ferrets etc-in order to defuse some of the opposition they saw at the hearing.
-----
Brad Chambers
WWW.HCU-TX.ORG

The Avalanche has already started-it is too late for the pebbles to vote....

swiss May 13, 2009 08:14 PM

You notice that the warm and fuzzy critters always seem to get preferential treatment? Its also funny how AR orgs point to the astronomical monetary damage ($137 billion) due to invasive species, yet they seem to forget that the list of animals that they have exempted have caused part of that $137 billion. Cats alone are responsible for an estimated 17 billion of that 137 billion cited! Not only that, but feral and "pet" cats are responsible for considerable strain on many species survival.

Now, I like cats, but someone needs to point out these half truths about the figures AR prople cite. They don't seem to cite that fact that their exempt list animals are responsible for a good portion.

Having said that, a considerable portion of that $137 billion is from plant pathogens that produce crop losses for instance ($33 billion). Another harmful group, exotic microbes and parasites, have been intoduced when "livestock" (again, exempt animals) were brought to the U.S. and are responsible for a $9 billion loss per year.

So what percentage of that $137 billion loss are from reptiles? Well, the total cost associated with the brown tree snake is approximately $12 million.

jscrick May 13, 2009 11:18 PM

What I find interesting is the amalgam of interest groups listed in the first paragraph. I know it's been said many times before by Ernie, Tom, and others here. Worth repeating. I'm a believer. That entire message has probably been posted here before.
The common thread is the "Don't keep in captivity" way of thinking. That's what these groups all have in common. These are people on a "moral" mission, thinly disguised as an environmental imperative. They hold the position that "wild" should remain wild. Somewhat of an inflexible extremist ideologue mentality. It is emotionally based. Based on an individual's personal perspective on what one feels is best for animals, versus what one feels is morally reprehensible. It is faith based. It is based on one's faith that one knows what's best. They just know it in their heart. They are legislating morality. They are in fact telling you what is proper and what is a no-no when it comes to your personal interaction with animals. Indisputable truth being, more species/populations have been positively effected through captive propagation/possession in the private sector. Leaving it to the proper authorities has had a dismal track record. That is why they frame their argument with that thin veneer of the "invasive exotic threat". They put up a Red Herring Straw Man argument as a cover for an indefensible position of morality.
Thanks for the early enlightenment guys. Now, I've seen it for myself from their own mouths.
jsc

-----
"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

ralphaldis May 13, 2009 11:44 PM

On the Item 10 below, since it relates to Item 9 as posted by
asalzberg@herpdigest.org and is the start of this thread.

It would seem that their arguments could be turned against them. Ending the multibillion dollar size of our industry would have a major economic impact. And the shear numbers of animals they cite as imported each year for decades and no real documented evidence of food chain risk or human health issues? We cannot have sweeping regulations of unknown costs that prevent the most remote chance of some costs being incurred.

A quarantine model, such as for the recent swine flu scare, shows that scientist would have to support, given the shear number of imports and exports in the past of reptiles, there would be no beneficial impact at this point from enacting such laws.

If such threats exist out side our country, surely the same threats already exist from our own domestic wildlife populations. Putting legislation in place at this time would have greater economic cost than any benefits it would hope to achieve.

asalzberg@herpdigest.org

10) Study Finds - U.S. Wildlife Trade Poorly Regulated, Threatening Food Supply Chains, Human Health, Ecosystems
>
> ScienceDaily (May 11, 2009) — Wildlife imports into the United States are fragmented and insufficiently coordinated, failing to accurately list more than four in five species entering the country, a team of scientists has found. The effect, the scientists write in the journal Science, May 1, is that a range of diseases is introduced into the United States, potentially decimating species, devastating ecosystems and threatening food supply chains and human health.
>
> The research by Brown University, Wildlife Trust, Pacific Lutheran University, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and the Global Invasive Species Programme comes as Congress begins deliberating the Nonnative Wildlife Invasion Prevention Act (HR 669), which would tighten regulations on wildlife imports. At a hearing last week before the House Natural Resources Committee, Subcommittee on Insular Affairs, Oceans and Wildlife, wildlife experts discussed how nonnative species and plants can disrupt ecosystems. One case mentioned at the hearing involves the Burmese python, originally imported as a pet that now infests the Florida Everglades.
>
> The global wildlife trade generates hundreds of billions of dollars annually. The team analyzed Law Enforcement Management Information System (LEMIS) data gathered by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service from 2000 through 2006 and found the United States imported upward of 1.5 billion live wildlife animals. The vast majority of the imports were from wild populations in more than 190 countries around the world and were intended for commercial sale in the United States — primarily in the pet trade.
>
> “That’s equivalent to every single person in the U.S. owning at least five pets,” said Katherine Smith, assistant research professor in the Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology at Brown University and a co-author on the paper.
>
> “That’s over 200 million animals a year — unexpectedly high,” said Peter Daszak, president of Wildlife Trust and a co-author on the paper.
>
> The team also found that more than 86 percent of the shipments were not classified to the level of species, despite federal guidelines that mandate species-level labeling. The lack of accurate reporting makes it impossible to fully assess the diversity of animals imported or calculate the risk of nonnative species or the diseases they may carry, the team wrote.
>
> “Shipments are coming in labeled ‘live vertebrate’ or ‘fish,’” Daszak said. “If we don’t know what animals are coming in, how do we know which are going to become invasive species or carry diseases that could affect livestock, wildlife or ourselves?”
>
> “The threat to public health is real. The majority of emerging diseases come from wildlife,” said Smith, who is also a senior consultant at Wildlife Trust. “Most of these imported animals originate in Southeast Asia — a region shown to be a hotspot for these emerging diseases.”
>
> The team called for direct and immediate measures to decrease what it has termed “pathogen pollution” — the risks associated with poorly regulated wildlife trade. Specifically, the team recommended:
>
> * Requiring stricter record keeping and better risk analysis of animal imports;
> * Establishing third-party surveillance and testing for both known and unknown pathogens at points of export in foreign countries;
> * Educating individuals, importers, veterinarians and pet industry advocates to the dangers of diseases transmitted from wildlife to humans and domesticated animals.
>
> The study was funded by the National Science Foundation, the Cestone Foundation, the Eppley Foundation, the New York Community Trust, The Rockefeller Foundation, the Smith Fellowship Program, the Switzer Foundation, and V. Kann Rasmussen Foundation.
>
> Adapted from materials provided by Brown University.

jscrick May 14, 2009 08:39 AM

Yes, this article causes me concern as to the National Science Foundation's motives here. It was my understanding, they were an unbiased empirically based scientific research organization -- a non-profit partnership between government and academia for the benefit of mankind. Now, I'm not so sure. Where's the science?
jsc
-----
"As hard as I've tried, just can't NOT do this"
John Crickmer

obeligz May 14, 2009 07:08 PM

Hehmmz.. ^_^
I like your reasoning.
The science is in part embedded in CITES, but I´m sure the National Science Foundation has contributed to scientific herpetology in other respects also.
oby

Site Tools