Reptile & Amphibian Forums

So I grew up in wisconsin and for the last five years I have been living down in springfeild MO. I just moved back home last week, the same house my family has lived in for over a decade. Over the last weekend i have been busy moving things in and moving stuff around. Then today I am out doing yard work when a local officer comes up to have a word with me. According to him there have been some complaints about my "odd" pets.

After talking to him it seemed that the compliant was against my feeders. The officer did not seem to know that we had snakes until I mention it, but he made comment about the rats. So I ran down to the city hall and got a copy of the ordinance which says as fallows:

9.10 Keeping of animals and poultry regulated. (1) Definitions. (a)livestock. includes, but not limited to, horses, cattle, swine, sheep and goats.

(b) wild animals. Birds, mammals and reptiles which normally inhabit and propagate in a natural environment.

(2) No person having in his possession or under his control any animal or fowl shall allow the same to run at large within the village.

(3) no person shall keep in his possession any livestock within the village, except in an A Agricultural District.

(4) No person shall keep in his possession any wild animal within the village

(5)Keeping of snakes, reptiles and insects not permitted in village (Cr. Ord. #4-04.) NO person shall bring into, keep, maintain, offer for sale or barterany of the following type of creatures, nor shall any person permit any such activities to occur on premises owned, controlled, rented or maintained by that person relating to the following types of creatures.

(a)any snakes not indigenous to this state or any other snake exceeding 2 feet in length.

This is what the books say. I know that this means my breeders need to be moved outside of village limits but I still don't see how they can wrap my rats in this mess.

Any thoughts on how to address this???

matt

It is a rare case that rodents such as mice (Mus musculus) or rats (Rattus rattus or Rattus norvegicus) are called "wild animals" so I doubt that is the problem.

It would also be strange, then, if they were considering your rats as Livestock since they are feeders. That line does say livestock "includes but is not limited to". In which case you would have to keep them in the agricultural district?

This is also one of those laws they do not enforce unless someone files a complaint. So, I would recommend trying to settle the rat issue without bringing the snakes up again. You can always move things now if you want, but you might not need to.
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1.1 ball pythons
1.1 kingsnakes
0.1 crazy cat
?.? ASFs
1.0 husband

Yah, since they never asked what type of snakes I have I don't plan on letting them know that we have ball pythons. I figure hit on the rat issue and make that the focus so the snake issue gets forgotten. Let's face it it is easier to hide a snake then a rat. LOL!!!

I will keep you posted.

matt

Hopefully I will meet with an officer more in detail about this tomorrow as I am suppose to have them out by this weekend.

Are there wild rats in your area? If so...they can wrap the rats into it.

Don't ya just LOVE people?
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"What is man without the beasts?
If all the beasts were gone,
men would die from great loneliness of spirit.
For what happens to the beasts,
soon happens to men.
All things are connected."

-Chief Seattle (Duwamish Tribe)

This might be true, depending on the region. Usually animals can be classified as "Pest" or "Wild", very rarely both. It would be uncommon for rats to qualify as Wild since they are considered Pests almost everywhere else. But do check with your local designations.
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1.1 ball pythons
1.1 kingsnakes
0.1 crazy cat
?.? ASFs
1.0 husband

they are the wild animal,game animal and livestock rules...

ask them about PET rules......

......might still be screwed , it might say like three of any species....(dog and or cat usually but they screw everyone else due to some crazy old frizzy haired lady with no man having had 138 cats in her home at one time ,years ago...so it screwed all other people forever.....or the people that had chickens in the yard and the neighbor hated the noise so they too screwed it up for all others.....my area, a guy got a pair of emus and stuck them in his yard...in a development...there went the laws.....bam....stupid moron.....

....if pets have a number...you could have that number....of rats and snakes and mice.....etc etc....

my district said no wild,game,livestock etc.....but I COULD have a potbelly pig....so if the neighbors started it and you have to change and they aloow you a pig....get one and make sure to have it look clean yet bother the neighbors all you can....LOL
revenge.....

.....I was told "animals, like normal stuff you can get in a pet shop? yes they are ok...".....buy rats abnd snakes in shops correct???

word things the way you want so it helps you not hurts you...

ask about PETS......

.......good luck
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>>So I grew up in wisconsin and for the last five years I have been living down in springfeild MO. I just moved back home last week, the same house my family has lived in for over a decade. Over the last weekend i have been busy moving things in and moving stuff around. Then today I am out doing yard work when a local officer comes up to have a word with me. According to him there have been some complaints about my "odd" pets.
>>
>>After talking to him it seemed that the compliant was against my feeders. The officer did not seem to know that we had snakes until I mention it, but he made comment about the rats. So I ran down to the city hall and got a copy of the ordinance which says as fallows:
>>
>>9.10 Keeping of animals and poultry regulated. (1) Definitions. (a)livestock. includes, but not limited to, horses, cattle, swine, sheep and goats.
>>
>>(b) wild animals. Birds, mammals and reptiles which normally inhabit and propagate in a natural environment.
>>
>>(2) No person having in his possession or under his control any animal or fowl shall allow the same to run at large within the village.
>>
>>(3) no person shall keep in his possession any livestock within the village, except in an A Agricultural District.
>>
>>(4) No person shall keep in his possession any wild animal within the village
>>
>>(5)Keeping of snakes, reptiles and insects not permitted in village (Cr. Ord. #4-04.) NO person shall bring into, keep, maintain, offer for sale or barterany of the following type of creatures, nor shall any person permit any such activities to occur on premises owned, controlled, rented or maintained by that person relating to the following types of creatures.
>>
>>(a)any snakes not indigenous to this state or any other snake exceeding 2 feet in length.
>>
>>
>>This is what the books say. I know that this means my breeders need to be moved outside of village limits but I still don't see how they can wrap my rats in this mess.
>>
>>Any thoughts on how to address this???
>>
>>matt
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Thanks,

Frank Roberts

You have three choices. 1) move, 2) get rid of the animals, 3) go to court and fight it

or 4 find a way to get the officals to back off!!! HOPING! we will see because I still do not see how they can claim my animals are "wild" as they are all cb. If 4 doesn't work we will move the animals until we fight it or move? We will see what happens. It does crack me up though because I figure the officers thought we are the type of people who will just roll over and give up our animals. They don't realize we just spent the last 2-3 months fighting hr669. I don't roll over.

matt

I have fought a couple cities in court that I lived in that wanted my herps gone. I have won them all. The problem is simple, you have to get them to ticket you and drag you to court and then you have to know how and what to say to a judge to win in court.

You might want to contact the WI herp society and see if they have any advice. I know our local ordinance is 3 animals any type except fish - but I was able to get a permit for the snakes. There might be some kind of compromise you can reach.
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Tosha
JET Pythons
Toshas Blog

Herp Medicine does not equal a bottle of Baytril - Dr. Scott Stahl

Under current law I cannot have the balls so I am moving them out of village limits for time being however I have already told the officer that came out to talk to me that I will fight this. Under current ordinance they have no grounds on the rats. The village is having a board meeting this wednesday night so I am working on writing two letters to the board and get on the adjenda. I figure I will treat the rats and the snakes as two different issues that way they cannot try to use on to justify the other.

And if they write me a ticket for the rats I will see them in court!!!

Matt

I will keep everyone posted, I am so glad I just got done fighting hr669... I am loaded with info!!!