Reptile & Amphibian Forums

i picked up a pair of these from a local. he says they are pyros....but the face doesn't look right.....are they multicincta(sp?)

anybody care to pass judgement?

-----
Stu
Snakes N Gex.com

They look like Agalma to me.. Which is great if you paid for a Pyro!

Jerry Kruse will be able to confirm what it is for you..

~ Mike Russo

first thought was agalma here also
.
.
.
-----
......6
......36/ 6
...........................

.

the ball folks are going to be upset when they find out you defected over the this forum! lol
-----
Stu
Snakes N Gex.com

I still got balls
I hide in the ball,corn,ratsnake,king,milk,hybrid lately and garter,small terrestrial,field observations,feeder,forums....burm forum taught me there are now leucy burms kinda sorta....???and the forums in general are slow and some are downright boring ...so you have to visit alot of them.....

.....right?......

.....I have been buying different things, milks, small ones, and ratsnakes...a few.....balls prices droooop and drop......have to get some cool stuff to at least look at, whine about eating issues and get bitten by....oh....and to get dud eggs from (like the amel ruthven's today...bred to a pyro pyro, yea...I know...and knobs again..)...

....have fun.......!!
-----
......7
......44/ 6
...........................

.

your just a little social butterfly! lol

i'm headed down the same road with all this new stuff....corns and kings and milks and geckos.....at least the balls are paying for it all!
-----
Stu
Snakes N Gex.com

What do you call a guy with no arms and legs in your jacuzzi?

stu!
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

i'm a little worried about where this is going! lol
-----
Stu
Snakes N Gex.com

No not "Bob" ,,, Stu ...as in Stew! LOL!

A guy with no arms in your pool is Bob. In the hot Jacuzzi it is stu.

Anyway, welcome to the forum. I love zonata so keep posting pics.

Rainer
-----
www.Bluerosy.com

I didn't stop to think that the hot water made a difference! lol!

Thanks for the welcome!
-----
Stu
Snakes N Gex.com

Thanks Mike! and thanks for getting Jerry to confirm!

how can you guys tell the differences?? where are the books? photo galleries? etc....

has anyone put together a comprehensive photo book showing all the differnt mountain kings? with explanations of the differences?

Thanks again!
-----
Stu
Snakes N Gex.com

Check out Brian Hubbs Mountain Kings.
It has been out of print for a while, but
Brian is planning on re-printing it when
he sends his new book on Kingsnakes to the
presses. If you contact me I'll send you
Brian's contact info. You new snake is
definitely an Agalma, Jerry Kruse will
be able to help you with the locale. I'm not too savy
on the differences between the Sierra San Pedro Martir,
and Sierra de Juarez, by casual glance. Very nice buy.
-Phil
-----
Work is the curse of
the drinking class!

Thanks guys for thinking of me. Much appreciated. So yeah, it's for sure a Sierra Juarez Baja mountain kingsnake (L. z. "agalma" -- I put this in quotations acknowledging the taxonomic changes that are underway -- which would likely be a good buy if they were sold as pyromelana. LOL.

There are two flavors of agalma from disjunct mountain ranges.... one being the northern range Sierra Juarez which are larger, thicker, greater triad count, and have a more stout/rounded head shape. The other being the southern Sierra de San Pedro Martir which are smaller, thinner in overall body shape, lesser triad count, a translucent line down the length of the ventral scales, and a more elongated head shape with a more mottled head design:

Sierra Juarez head

Sierra de San Pedro Martir head

Sierra Juarez

Sierra de San Pedro Martir

And for comparison sake, here is a Sierra mountain kingsnake (L. z. multicincta).....very different looking....

Hope this clarifies things Stu. Hope we can see full photos of your acquisitions. And the Hubbs book is excellent, very detailed worthwhile reading. The photos are awesome in Merker/Mulks book particularly with different meristics and head shot comparisons. I'd recommend having both actually. And please remember the basic info I'd given you in private e-mail regarding temps and feeding nuances. Talk to you soon.
" alt="Image">
-----
Jerry Kruse

And God said, "Let there be zonata subspecies for all to ponder..."

Are you sure on that Jerry?? It seems like you may have just made up all that stuff...

Joke of course... My boy is wickid smaat...

~ Mike Russo

Hey Jerry,

Thanks for the pics show the differences...its really easy to see the difference from the multi too.

I'll have to take more pics of the pair to show off....the only other pic i have is....well.....bad. lol

I think I may be hooked on these guys now!
-----
Stu
Snakes N Gex.com

It doesn't look like a multicincta to me...

Looks like agalma more than multi w/ the red head.
??
:Mark
-----
Surrender Dorothy!

crimsonking.piczo.com/

Thanks mark!
-----
Stu
Snakes N Gex.com

The shape of the head also points to agalma. Mulks and Merker's book on zonata is a good one for comparing the subspecies with many pictures for each.
-----
Rick Staub

thanks for the info Rick! got a copy on the way.
-----
Stu
Snakes N Gex.com

looks like agalma to me but I don't know much.

know more than me

thanks for weighing in
-----
Stu
Snakes N Gex.com